BDSM in the World of the Real

[Gidgy]

Hai! I'm a RL BDSM pansexual switch little. I been in the RL world of BDSM for a while nows, mostly in the US and a tiny bit in the UK.

If you'd like to know something about it, or have questions, I'll tries to answer them! There's not many people who would calls themselves an expert on BDSM and I certainly won't either, but I do know a lot and I've seen a lot, and will gives you my best in the ways of objective answers.

DISCLAIMER: BDSM in the real world is very different than it is in books, movies, RP, hentai, porn, etc. 

Please keep topics here focused on RL BDSM. There plenty of other places to talk about RP versions.

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To get things going....what it BDSM?

It a bastardized and overloaded acronym. BDSM generally stands for...

• Bondage - tying people ups!
• Discipline - controlling actions or behavior
• Domination - using power you've been given
• Submission - giving your power to someone else
• Sadism - deriving pleasure from inflicting pain
• Masochism - deriving pleasure from pain

Wait wait wait.... Isn't that BDDSSM? It is!!!  But that not really roll off the tongue does it?

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Regardless of your thoughts on BDSM there's a lot of people who'd take one look at it and call it abuse. Including many states' legal systems. 

There's one thing that separates BDSM from abuse and that's the most important part of BDSM -- consent.

Only people who can give consent, have given consent, and have not revoked consent can engage in BDSM play.

So who can consent? You must be ALL of the below:

• Adult - age/definition varies by region, but if you're not an adult you can't consent
• Sober - can't be drunk or high and consent, this means you passed out white girl!
• Healthy Mind - you can't consent if you're mentally ill, mentally handicapped, or suffer from untreated emotional issues

The most controversial of the above is probably emotional issues. Does this mean you can't give consent if you're depressed or have anxiety? Not exactly, it's a judgement call. Somebody who is visibly depressed to the point where they're cutting or doing other forms of self harm are out. Not because those people can't be kinky or aren't valued, but rather because it's just not safe. You want to play with your toys, not break your toys! So those people gotta go get healthy first!

On a more personal note I'd add to not ever play with a dom who is an idiot or an asshole. Cause they gonna harm you at some point by accident or on purpose.

[GoddamnHero Deactivated]

Nice post about explaining BDSM! It's easy to see people thinking that BDSM is like porn movies and hentai and I think that makes most people that try decepcionate themselves, or make people that just want to get started to regret themselves for trying.

[Warning]

5 hours ago, GoddamnHero said:

Nice post about explaining BDSM! It's easy to see people thinking that BDSM is like porn movies and hentai and I think that makes most people that try decepcionate themselves, or make people that just want to get started to regret themselves for trying.

This is why it's important to separate reality from fiction, always. Fiction doesn't hold such morality standards as reality does. But anyway yeah, just thought it was an important detail to take into account. Lot of things are done in fiction that we would not do IRL. Fantasy is much more open, much more wild but such is the nature of hentai. As Gidgy said it best, though: "BDSM in the real world is very different than it is in books, movies, RP, hentai, porn, etc." and I am one of those who only really know the latter (Which is fine by me, really.) BDSM is not my favorite thing in general.

This thread can be informative and I don't think that I've seen any threads about this before so yeah. Some people might want to know what it's like in real life, from someone who's into it.

[BlackwingAvatar]

I'm glad to see someone working on debunking the myths.  There have been a number of fictional pieces (50 Shades, I'm fucking looking at you) that have done the BDSM community really dirty.  Consent is paramount to anyone who knows what's really going on in this community.  I do hope to find some people who'd be into playing it around here, but most people seem to just want to lean into the roughness side of it.

[Chaos Ainger]

On 09/11/2023 at 11:04, BlackwingAvatar said:

I'm glad to see someone working on debunking the myths.  There have been a number of fictional pieces (50 Shades, I'm fucking looking at you) that have done the BDSM community really dirty.  Consent is paramount to anyone who knows what's really going on in this community.  I do hope to find some people who'd be into playing it around here, but most people seem to just want to lean into the roughness side of it.

I would actually argue against the last part of what you said. To me most people shy away from the rough side of it, that being the sadism and masochist part,  I also find most people seem to think the submissive means being a door mat.  That all being said I will admit that I personally enjoy the rougher side more than most and it s the part that kind of attracted me to the idea but in talking with people in various places have become more attracted to  BDSM as whole. Anyway I know this thread is on the older side  but  had to put my thoughts out there with how I have experienced things.

[Gidgy]

Maybe that’s where RL and RP start to diverge.

In RP a submissive often does take the doormat role. The dominant might be a rapist or someone far more into the force side of things than the domination side. I don’t judge people’s kinks or RP habits and if that’s your thing great!

In RL, a submissive has to be very, VERY communicative so that their Dom knows what is okay and what isn’t and what might be okay but today it isn’t. The Dom has to listen and respect the submissive and sometimes even just stop or slow things down when the submissive didn’t ask for that, but the Dom recognizes that they’re no longer able to be communicative.

In RP, rough pain play can be exciting and fun and the buildup and aftercare and technique and pain tolerance never comes into play.

In RL, rough pain play is an art and requires careful coordination and the right people and techniques and timing and aftercare and something as simple as humidity level and tool material can change everything.

For me personally (and this definitely varies by person) submission can work very well in RP as well as RL and feels somewhat similar. But pain play is wildly different, so different that doing it in RP makes me roll my eyes in most cases. It’s just nothing alike. And the comedown or after care is half the experience in RL and mostly skipped entirely in RP.

If you find RP BDSM fun then you’ll probably like it in RL too, but take the time to educate yourself on the differences before jumping in. The rules are very different and there are real dangers to be aware of, both for tops and for bottoms. 

[𝘿𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙈𝙖𝙣]

  I disagree as well.

 Fifty Shades, although bland to me, was a much-needed sexual revolution. It brought BDSM into mainstream pop culture and opened a dialog and interest outside of the uber-elite bondage hipsters who controlled it at the time (cira 1990), paving the way for a huge explosion of mass media. Everyone jumped on this craze and has been ever since. Women all over the country - and the world, for that matter, felt safe discussing bdsm over coffee, in public places, because a book brought a sense of sophistication — not dirty, inappropriate banter. Many considered BDSM satanic, or dark still, up until it came out, and was reserved more for estranged cliques in society.

  Moreover, it is comical to me because the publishers created a marketing tool of bad publicity. After all, controversy sells and are just as hot as sex. So really, in my opinion, this “they did us wrong” is only further propelling the propaganda tool that they used to further sell, sell, sell. It's exactly what they wanted. It's essentially free publicity whenever you create a buzz such as this rather than paying for ads or airtime. And I'm not picking on anyone here, I, too, was duped by it. Hardly at the time did we see it as a revolution, but now we can look back and see it pretty loud and clear.

  The book came out in 2011. Along with Rihanna’s Loud album, with a heavy influence of bondage being the center subject. See S&M, Rihanna. It paved the way for The Weekend, who made his debut one year before the movie’s release, in 2014, where he gained traction with the same themes and tones. These are just a few examples, by the way, there are plenty. Lady Gaga (controversial at the time) also spearheaded the forefront and got the ball rolling just a year or two before the book with songs like Bad Romance(09), paving the way for the next best-selling book trend that led to its creation… and ultimately made the BDSM community mainstream and far more inclusive, as well as stripped a lot of the taboo of it off.

 And for that, I am extremely grateful.

[BlackwingAvatar]

18 minutes ago, 𝘿𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙈𝙖𝙣 said:

  I disagree as well.

 Fifty Shades, although bland to me, was a much-needed sexual revolution. It brought BDSM into mainstream pop culture and opened a dialog and interest outside of the uber-elite bondage hipsters who controlled it at the time (cira 1990), paving the way for a huge explosion of mass media. Everyone jumped on this craze and has been ever since. Women all over the country - and the world, for that matter, felt safe discussing bdsm over coffee, in public places, because a book brought a sense of sophistication — not dirty, inappropriate banter. Many considered BDSM satanic, or dark still, up until it came out, and was reserved more for estranged cliques in society.

  Moreover, it is comical to me because the publishers created a marketing tool of bad publicity. After all, controversy sells and are just as hot as sex. So really, in my opinion, this “they did us wrong” is only further propelling the propaganda tool that they used to further sell, sell, sell. It's exactly what they wanted. It's essentially free publicity whenever you create a buzz such as this rather than paying for ads or airtime. And I'm not picking on anyone here, I, too, was duped by it. Hardly at the time did we see it as a revolution, but now we can look back and see it pretty loud and clear.

  The book came out in 2011. Along with Rihanna’s Loud album, with a heavy influence of bondage being the center subject. See S&M, Rihanna. It paved the way for The Weekend, who made his debut one year before the movie’s release, in 2014, where he gained traction with the same themes and tones. These are just a few examples, by the way, there are plenty. Lady Gaga (controversial at the time) also spearheaded the forefront and got the ball rolling just a year or two before the book with songs like Bad Romance(09), paving the way for the next best-selling book trend that led to its creation… and ultimately made the BDSM community mainstream and far more inclusive, as well as stripped a lot of the taboo of it off.

 And for that, I am extremely grateful.

I see some of your point.  However, my primary issue with 50 Shades is the fact that what we are seeing between the two main characters is not an even remotely healthy BDSM relationship.  That is toxic as fuck, rapey and completely lacking in consent.  There are several times when the character is not saying no in some consensual non-consent way, but is genuinely having her will and consent violated.  That isn't BDSM.  That's someone being an abusive piece of human garbage.  So while I respect your point about 'not buying into it', I find that to be irrelevant against the value of pointing out that the content is straight up not what anyone in the BDSM community would want portrayed as a typical or even acceptable relationship.  We don't do that shit.  Not bringing that up is irresponsible and would in my opinion be more propagandist, instead allowing a bad perception of what the community is to further infect the public consciousness without being challenged.

Due respect to Rihanna, The Weeknd, Gaga and anyone else who's written on the theme: They are definitely not the first.  While I am grateful for a broader acceptance, they are simply the ones who brought it more into this generation's line of attention.  But these three are much more responsible examples.  What I've heard of that album (not my thing, more my ex's) is almost exclusively about a more positive and empowered experience.  I'm not actually familiar with The Weeknd's contributions to the same.  And Lady Gaga's songs highlight the visceral power and toxicity that can exist in some relationships, which is both sensible and healthy.  Were I to put it out to the universe, my key takeaway here is: Please have artists, writers and more bring this farther into mainstream acceptance.  Let's just make sure that we call bad examples what they are.  Letting corporatists off the hook will not reduce their profits.

 

On 04/02/2024 at 10:36, Chaos Ainger said:

I would actually argue against the last part of what you said. To me most people shy away from the rough side of it, that being the sadism and masochist part,  I also find most people seem to think the submissive means being a door mat.  That all being said I will admit that I personally enjoy the rougher side more than most and it s the part that kind of attracted me to the idea but in talking with people in various places have become more attracted to  BDSM as whole. Anyway I know this thread is on the older side  but  had to put my thoughts out there with how I have experienced things.

Then I shall say that our experiences have varied.  I will certainly agree that many people uninitiated in BDSM outside of the online context typically focus on a narrower sub-set of what being a submissive or s-type is.  But they're also likeliest to be the people dabbling at it, even fictitiously.  That being said, I'm presently blessed with at least one play at present with healthy doses of both.  So perhaps I may have to reconsider my earlier statements.

[𝘿𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙈𝙖𝙣]

 See, though, the point you're making is that we are all too stupid to not realize it is a fantasy. A work of fiction. The trick is to get people talking, which it did. To strip away not touching the subject with a ten-foot poll. It brought people to the community, not away. This wasn't BDSM for Dummies, so why paint that on it like it was? It's silly to me. You have to take it as it is, not a guidebook, but a fantasy written in the perspective of a sadist.

Sadism, mind you, is a part of a dark triad in psychology. They lack empathy, lack a conscience. It is a disorder, from which the character clearly suffers. Being a "dom" is not a disorder. Being "a little rough" isn't isn't a disorder. Neither is being a little kinky.

 Without those elements mentioned, like rape, you've taken all the satisfaction away from the sadist. What you complain about the book, I hail, from being a sadist. Otherwise, it wasn't written for me, as a sadist, it was written for you, as a dom or however you stand on the spectrum. Honestly, I thought it was too soft, but I can respect some recognition of the subject because being a real sadist in life isn't easy. You almost have to use fantasy to feel anywhere near fulfilled or risk hurting real people. It didn't propel me out to rape anyone, either, or start writing up contracts for my collection of harems. 

The scene with her rolling her eyes when informed what would happen if she ever did it again, along with not eating the food, and not wearing what he told her to wear, was one of the best parts. It's angst. She's a brat and he tames it by blistering that ass. Ugh. 

That sums up just about 90% of every sadist RP I've ever written. It's sadism writing 101. Take it from a sadist writer. I write the same shit daily, my dude. I like that what I write is trendy and earns massive money. As one who writes rape themes, it could have been darker.

[BlackwingAvatar]

28 minutes ago, 𝘿𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙈𝙖𝙣 said:

 See, though, the point you're making is that we are all too stupid to not realize it is a fantasy. A work of fiction. The trick is to get people talking, which it did. To strip away not touching the subject with a ten-foot poll. It brought people to the community, not away. This wasn't BDSM for Dummies, so why paint that on it like it was? It's silly to me. You have to take it as it is, not a guidebook, but a fantasy written in the perspective of a sadist.

Sadism, mind you, is a part of a dark triad in psychology. They lack empathy, lack a conscience. It is a disorder, from which the character clearly suffers. Being a "dom" is not a disorder. Being "a little rough" isn't isn't a disorder. Neither is being a little kinky.

 Without those elements mentioned, like rape, you've taken all the satisfaction away from the sadist. What you complain about the book, I hail, from being a sadist. Otherwise, it wasn't written for me, as a sadist, it was written for you, as a dom or however you stand on the spectrum. Honestly, I thought it was too soft, but I can respect some recognition of the subject because being a real sadist in life isn't easy. You almost have to use fantasy to feel anywhere near fulfilled or risk hurting real people. It didn't propel me out to rape anyone, either, or start writing up contracts for my collection of harems. 

The scene with her rolling her eyes when informed what would happen if she ever did it again, along with not eating the food, and not wearing what he told her to wear, was one of the best parts. It's angst. She's a brat and he tames it by blistering that ass. Ugh. 

That sums up just about 90% of every sadist RP I've ever written. It's sadism writing 101. Take it from a sadist writer. I write the same shit daily, my dude. I like that what I write is trendy and earns massive money. As one who writes rape themes, it could have been darker.

Plenty of society is that stupid.  If you're in the community, then you should recall how many 50 Shades fools showed up when that book and then movie got popular, thinking that they could do as they pleased and oversimplifying just like Mr. Grey because girls should kneel.  Barf.  So due respect, again, there's a reason that I point to this and say "Yeah, that's nice but it's also fucking trash if you're talking about BDSM".  Because unfortunately, it is still for most their most current frame of popular reference.  Ask most people in 2024 who Anaïs Nin, the Marquis de Sade or many of the more philosophical or cultural touchstones that would be far richer and they have absolutely no clue.  But they know this clown in a suit and some of them took it literally.  Are you that guy?  Clearly not.  But there's too many out there, so yes, I'll happily have this discussion a hundred times.

I'm fully aware of all of that being that I practice Dominance, impact, Kazami-style shibari, consensual non-consent and a whole host of other fun things as I have for well over a decade now.  I'm keenly aware that I am not broken nor disorderly.  Nobody said that.  So while I'm glad that you hail from 'being a Sadist', I hail from a decade or two of actual dynamics and playing with folks because they *actually trust that I understand consent*.  You seem to be implying that the two are mutually exclusive.  They most assuredly are not.

Finally, you and I couldn't possibly differ more in philosophy on that last bit.  Sadism for sadism's sake does not require that you stick your dick in something to experience joy, whether said dick is welcomed or not.  If you need or want to cum to be satisfied after you've inflicted your pain, you don't actually have to rape anyone.  I personally prefer masochists to get the best of both worlds.  But that's me. 

While you and I could go around about this forever and a day, I'll leave it at this.  Consent is the difference between deep, dark, twisted fulfillment that inspires a lifetime of erotic joy and a sex crime that inspires years of trauma.  If you're going for horror, then sure, consent is not important.  But what happens in that story isn't horror so applying that same construct of psychology to it is ill-fitting at best and inspiring of bad ideas and beliefs at worst.  To you it's okay.  To me it very much isn't.  And no amount of discussion about it is likely to modify my view that 50 Shades of Grey's popularization was more of a net harm to the BDSM community.

[𝘿𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙈𝙖𝙣]

Rape is not limited to just 'horror'.

It's the BDSM community's job to inform. Which they did. Lovely job.

The book brought people to a better understanding and broke stigmas. Made it popular. Got them to their door. 

Fantasy is fantasy.

Writing a light fantasy story for women is stark compared to the very real, non-fantasy teachings of de Sade(and in his own words:)

Crime is the soul of lust. 

Sex without pain is without flavor. 

The dirtier it is the more valuable. 

Marriage? Bah humbug. 

In an age that's corrupt, the best policy is to do as others do.

Nothing quite encourages like one's first unpunished crime.

The only path to a woman's heart is torment.

All of that is very unsafe in the hands of ignorance. More so than a soft rape-core novel made for women, by a woman, with them being the targeted audience. 

His books also contain blasphemy, incest, sodomy, flagellation, coprophilia, necrophilia, and the rape, torture, and murder of adults and children. Needless to say, Fifty Shades was vanilla compared to just the first 60 days of 120 days of Sodom, and why Fifty Shades was able to get church moms reading it. Because a convicted, blasphemous, nihilistic anarchist Frenchie is a little much for your average American Christian mother, even in 2011.

And so you know, he was mainly arrested for being as records disclosed: “a moral threat to prostitutes.” Because he saw them as all whores for hire, paid to do as he pleased, whether they liked it or not. He loved buying someone for sex just to violently beat them. You got to be pretty bad to be imprisoned in 1800s France for being a risk to what they saw as the scum of the Earth, aka a peasant sex worker. His first conviction was by a sex worker, Rose Keller, who was beaten against her consent with a weapon in 1768. The abuse was so bad she became a nun for the rest of her life. He also deflowered his underage sister-in-law and made her his mistress. Was arrested repetitively in at least three different areas in France. The only reason he was even freed was because the French Revolution happened before he could rot. And his wife he wrote all those letters to? Yeah, she filed for divorce the minute she knew he was free.