FATE of the Liberation Union Strike Team

[WritesNaughtyStories]

We have free spots, as many spots as there are players.

We're not using anything nearly as chunky as Lancer (although I LOVE that game, and while the graphics aren't as good as MechWarrior, check out Lancer Tactics on itch.io for a Lancer video game). We're using Fate.

So Mecha in this game are Kaiju cyborgs that kind of synch with their pilots through sex. What that looks (and feels) like is wholly up to you.

The short overview of the world building is that most of the world is controlled by a conglomeration of hypercorps and oppressive government agencies that control their population with emotion blocking drugs added to the food supply. Their mechs don't synch with their pilots, using (I guess) strictly digital brain interfaces so they're not as fast agile or independent as the Liberation Union's.

The Liberation Union are the scrappy rebels. They are desperate to break the Hive's soul crushing hold on mankind.

That's the elevator pitch. A quick catch up follows. @WickedCadrachand I are happy to answer questions.

The story so far is that the Hive has built an outpost in the fast lane of Kaiju highway that has no defenses. Liberation Union Strike Team Delta Foxtrot, led by Captain Magda Payarkoon, sent their tiniest Mecha, a stealth unit named Scyllia, piloted by a former Hive citizen named Lt. Emily Kehrer, to recon the outpost. Turns out, it's a propaganda piece and the Hive is planning on letting Kaiju kill the entire population on film to justify greater military spending.

A fight ensued and LUST DF managed to liberate a Hive BioFrame that can mimic the voices, electronic and transponder signatures of other frames and Kaiju. This new frame has no pilot. You may take it or create your own.

Captain Payarkoon has hatched a plan to liberate the outpost and its citizens but the plan to reduce the emotion blockers is going to take 90 days. It's a long time to hold the outpost. In order to take the outpost Payarkoon has suggested Kehrer may need to pilot the new frame. She is not happy about the plan and Scyllia, who doesn't know yet will like it even less.

Patches and Ya (Payarkoon's call sign, whi mean "grandma" in some mostly forgotten language) are planning on both riding Scyllia into the outpost to start reducing the e-blockers before the attack.

 

Jump in, soldier The Liberation Union needs you.

[Icarian Dreams]

Ohhh, that's a lot of very tasty lore and explanation; thank youuu~

I'll catch up and give a proper response tomorrow, since it's way past my bedtime right now. But this is looking lovely :3

[WritesNaughtyStories]

@WickedCadrach and I think it's really cool. The premise sounds a little silly, I know. It literally started as me joking about what kind of RP might attract interest, but no sooner than I made the wisecrack, than ideas started popping into my head. What has emerged is far richer, interesting and layered than I ever imagined.

It's strangely personal, thanks to hugely influential character building by @WickedCadrachthat helped define the world as well.

Please, read up, ask questions. Make suggestions. I encourage you to develop the setting with your character. If there is anything you need from us, I check in dozens of times a day. If I don't know, I'll probably ask you to make something up.

 

[Icarian Dreams]

Otay, I've been trying to write this post for like 2 hours now, but it turns into a stream of consciousness that I'm not very happy with by the end of it. So I'll just try to nail down the core thoughts I had and it might be better to work out on them together. For the record: I've read up the entire OOC thread, I skimmed through the IC one, but I think I got an idea of what's going on. I'm also passingly familiar with FATE - I've read the book once or twice, but never really had the chance to play or watch somebody play it to actually know the mechanics by heart. I'll certainly appreciate some help as we go through this, and I think I'll just work out who the character is narratively and then we can start putting labels where the system needs them.

So the core idea that I have in my noggin' is to have a character who's actually still a part of the Hive when we meet her first — a leader or member of whatever skeleton crew is stationed at the outpost LUST DF is attempting to liberate. They've been told they're there to defend the settlement, but it's pretty clear that it's a suicide mission and the whole thing is just to dispatch of some of the more problematic members in the military with as little paperwork as necessary and in a way that's most beneficial to the Hive's interest — in this case by contributing to the propaganda campaign in a similar way that the local population is going to.

I think whomever my character is has already taken a few steps to deprogram herself from the Hive's conditioning (so that we don't have to spend 90 in-game days to wait for her to get converted :p). My initial thought was that a mission in the past got her stranded without the supply of emotion blockers, which left her with a taste for emotion and sensation (que Hooked on a Feeling) but it leads my brain in the direction of writing someone seeking increasingly stronger emotional highs, and that's... not something that feels particularly appealing to me to write. So I'll just leave it here for now and see if maybe somebody here can prod me in a different direction.

Alternatively (in part, at least), I was thinking of using my character to introduce some third party to the conflict. A pirate gang or a mercenary outfit operating on the peripheries of the Hive, but not directly affiliated to the Union. Rebels vs the Empire is a tried and true base framework, but it does feel like it could use some spice from outside this core foundation. Just a loose thought so far, but I could pull onto it a bit more.

A question, since I wasn't seem to infer it from the thread: Is the setting placed on Earth/some other singular planet, or are we operating on an interplanetary level? And a separate one: How autonomous are the Bio-Frames? Are they dependent on a pilot to function at all, or are they able to maintain themselves without one? The image of the rare rogue Bio-Frame learning to operate completely on its own is an interesting one to think about in the context of the setting.

[WritesNaughtyStories]

The IC has pretty clearly established that detoxing from the e-blockers cold turkey is painful and terrifying. If your character had been stuck in the field long enough to run out of rations, those few days would be horribly traumatic. Facing that onslaught of emotions alone would leave anyone scarred. All they'd have is loneliness, fear and maybe the anger of betrayal made worse by hunger. How did they recover or willingly go off blockers again? I'm not saying no, I'm saying I don't see how it works. Give me a way it works with the established fiction and this is good 

The idea of a Hive citizen who intellectually sees the bullshit and knows they're going to be sacrificed, who saw the Liberation Union defend the outpost seems much more viable at first blush. Do you help Payarkoon and Kehrer sneak in and turn down the e-blockers in the food supply? I'm fine with you having started to wean yourself off e-blockers already, but where did you get the food? Are they the person in charge of the food factory? Are they a doctor?

We haven't actually made a choice about if it's a single planet or not, but it feels like it's a single planet, probably Earth but it isn't clear. Hive BioFrames have control circuits that prevent them from being independent. The Union Frames are independent. They're fairly smart but more driven by instinct than rational thought. The synch with the pilot kind of provides a way to access the pilot's rational brain. I literally just made this up, but I think what's happening is the sexual stimulation kind of occupies the instinctive lizard brain the Kaiju rely on, so the pilot can interact with the higher brain? Something like that.

A wild frame is mostly just a Kaiju. Up armored, but without the thought to use ranged weapons or strategies. But one could get loose. A Frame Wrangler becomes an interesting archetype.

As for other factions. I expect the Liberation Union is a union, there are probably a variety of factions that agree the Hive sucks, but don't agree on much else. I don't think mercs make sense though - the Union has no way to pay them and the Hive has no interest in letting them exist. Why pay for what you can make citizens do while you maintain control. 

Pirates are a possibility, but who do they trade with? What do they steal? I think there may be some kind of "Gas Town" or "Bullet Farm" that aren't technically part of the union, but definitely need them to keep the Hive from destroying them.

@WickedCadrach does any of what I've said make any sense?

[Icarian Dreams]

Shit, sorry. I didn't manage to read the IC yet, and I missed the post in OOC where that was mentioned. From what I'm reading detoxing in general is pretty traumatic, not just cold turkey, so that probably renders most of the idea moot. The cold analysis of "given the current status, aligning with Liberation Union gives us and this settlement better odds of survival" makes a little more sense for defecting here for sure, though it keeps the need to detoxify anyway, which is a whole can of worms that's probably best left unopened. Let's drop this idea.

I honestly don't quite agree with your view on the viability of third party factions, but that's fair enough. If you want to keep it to just the Hive and the Union, there's certainly ways to fill in the gaps — the Hive probably has private armies for whatever infighting/unofficial business the elites are having, and without the Hive's tolerance they don't really have a way to survive without joining the Union. I think pirates run into the very same issue of the Hive having no interest in them existing and without Union's help having no chance of survival.

To be honest, I think it's gonna be best if I drop out. Ongoing campaigns with custom settings like that are always a struggle to hop in when you weren't there at the start. I feel like I'm just gonna be treading on your baby otherwise, and I'm not really in the right mindspace at the moment to give it the attention it deserves  It's a good setting though, had fun reading through it :3

[WritesNaughtyStories]

I don't think it's a lost cause yet. The whole point of taking the outpost is to detox them safely, if you've started that process, you maybe able to help the Union successfully treat the outpost's population.

Given what you've seen, what do you think an external faction looks like? How do they interact with the Hive and the Union?

If you're convinced there's no point, it's a shame. Sorry it didn't fit what you can enjoy.

[Icarian Dreams]

29 minutes ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Given what you've seen, what do you think an external faction looks like? How do they interact with the Hive and the Union?

I think when you view the two factions as collectives of smaller entities that come into conflict with each other, mercenaries and other criminal third parties start to make more sense. The Hive is comprised of different corporations and wealthy elites that won't always be able to get what they want via official means — from my point of view, there's definitely space for organizations that would do the dirty work for them — corporate espionage, sabotage, making sure that that profitable operation that your neighbour is conducting suddenly changes hands. Historically, when you've got more money than you know what to do with, you start desiring things that just throwing money at won't get you, stuff that you're not allowed to just buy. I think that's where external organizations come in. As I said, a lot of it could be done by private armies, but even then an emotionless drone could be convinced to betray you — a third party meanwhile relies on its reputation to stay afloat. They generally cannot afford to fuck a client over.

As for where the Union comes in? Well, aside from the fact that the Union itself also has factions that are likely for infighting to occur between, a mercenary force is outside you day-to-day logistics. Sometimes an opportunity arises that you cannot mobilize quickly enough for yourself, but a local mercenary force may be able to. Or you need some backup you didn't expect to need. Or you just need more numbers than you can muster at a given moment. As to how the Union can pay? From the way I see it, the Union has unprocessed food, equipment and staff able to jailbreak, arm, and modify Bio-Frames, apparently even some territory of its own and the ability to hunker down well enough that the Hive cannot fully eradicate them. Let alone the Bio-Frames themselves, if the Union is willing to trade with them. From my point of view, there's a lot that can be traded.

That's just the mercenaries, too. But there will always be independent communities glad to split from whatever organization they belong to and carve a piece for themselves. A liberated settlement that doesn't really want to join the entire big war effort and hopes to just stay under the radar and siphon supplies from whatever supply routes are nearby. An emotionless outpost that realized they hold a unique enough position where cooperating with the Union while staying under the Hive's influence is in fact the best strategy not to get wiped by one of the sides. A splinter faction from the Union surrounding a personality they think should rule the liberated factions or who just doesn't agree with some point of what the Union is attempting to do.

If I'm making some misassumptions with these let me know, but I think that even then you'd be able to find other factions popping up, if not at the Hive, then at the very least the Union, which doesn't have the narrative device of e-blockers.

1 hour ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

I don't think it's a lost cause yet. The whole point of taking the outpost is to detox them safely, if you've started that process, you maybe able to help the Union successfully treat the outpost's population.

In all honesty, I've mostly lost interest in the character concept. Especially since Emily already had to go through detoxification, so I don't think there's much value to introducing another character with a focus on this sort of experience. Might be better to run someone from the Union itself. Or someone for whom the scars have mostly healed by now. There's a lot that can be explored in the setting still.

1 hour ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

If you're convinced there's no point, it's a shame. Sorry it didn't fit what you can enjoy.

I'm not convinced there's no point; I got a sense of frustration from your last post and I got a frustrated myself at getting what felt like a mostly negative response at pretty much every idea I was juggling with at the time, especially after outright getting told it would be nice if I tried to contribute to the setting. If that wasn't the intention, I'm sorry. It's been a long day, and I'm pretty sure I'm more cranky and sensitive to these sort of things than I should be. Words and sentiments are hard, especially the written kind x.x

[WritesNaughtyStories]

I am not ignoring this. I am thinking carefully about each point, trying to isolate my bias and what is actually written, while secretly hoping @WickedCadrach has something super insightful to say.

The first thing I need to say is, "I'm sorry I came across as simply dismissing everything you said." That was never my intent.

My clearest thought on the actual suggestions is that I agree, that both the Liberation Union and The Hive are fractious amalgams of internal factions. I think this is ground ripe for investigation and would suggest those internal factions might be the most rewarding to think about and offer the most to the game without altering the basic conflict.

[WickedCadrach]

@WritesNaughtyStories @Icarian Dreams

Ooooo-k, I picked an exciting couple of days to disappear Sorry! But I'm here now, and I'll try to keep my thoughts crispy. 

First off, Hi, @Icarian Dreams! I'm glad to see you pop in. 

--On the idea of a 3rd-Party Pirate / Mercenary character...
I have no problem with this. The main conflict is Hive vs. LU, but in a planet-wide conflict, you would 100% have people outside those main spheres of control: I'm imagining blasted former-battleground lands that neither the LU nor the Hive fight for because they aren't strategic or valuable enough. A few enterprising young men and women might find enough scrap Bio-Frame tech to 'wrangle' a Kaiju and make a 'jury-rigged' Bio-Frame of their own. They might find a 'left-for-dead' Hive BioFrame and nurse it back to fighting shape to take for their own. Either way, once they have the tech, they could do mercenary work for food/meds/etc that they can send back home or keep for personal wealth (trading it in other fringe villages like that). I can imagine a Hive suit slumming it in the local 'cave colony' to stir up the locals ahead of an incursion against the LU. I can easily picture the LU trying to rally local fighters and mercs (even those without BioFrames) with promises of weapons, tech, meds, or food.  

There are other ways it could play out, but the main idea on why this works for me is that there would be areas neither major faction has the resources or interest in controlling. In those areas poverty and scarcity become the motive to join the fight on whichever side is paying. 

--On the idea of a Hive defector character...
This is a cool idea. If we're not interested in a character undergoing e-blocker detox, then how do we feel about the Hive employing 'canaries'? The broad order is 'emotions are forbidden', but the Hive could have specific positions where someone is left with their emotions intact or on a very light dose of the e-blockers. This could be justified as needing someone who can 'think like the enemy', or it could just be Hive hypocrisy. They might realize the tactical advantage of someone who can think 'outside the box', so they secretly keep a few free-feelers who have been trained to pretend at emotionlessness. 

Chasing it another way. We could have a character who has had a natural immunity to the e-blockers their whole life, but they learned really young that it was going to get them in trouble, so they fake it and blend in. They've never had a serious thought about defecting, but now the Hive has unceremoniously demanded their death in a propaganda-driven last stand. 

--Other faction characters?
@Icarian Dreams raises an interesting point about what other ideals there could be within the larger factions. I don't think it breaks anything if we explore what some of those sects inside the factions might be. Off the top of my head...

* A Hive faction that e-blocks everything except Greed and Lust, because they believe it spurs a 'survival of the fittest' mentality.
* An LU faction that think the surest path to victory is to stop trying to 'cure' captured Hive personnel and burn it all down. 
* An unaligned faction that believes in kaiju supremacy - siding with LU to liberate Hive BioFrames, but siding with the Hive to stop LU intervention against Kaiju attacks. 

I think WNS got the questions about the detox, 'is this Earth', and such, but if there's something else I can answer, please let me know! 
I'd be very excited to see someone else hop in on this adventure with us! 

[WritesNaughtyStories]

@WickedCadrach, crispy and delicious! Thank you!

@Icarian Dreams, again let me apologize for responding so poorly. I will plead having been THRILLED to see your interest and wanting to share what the game is.

11 hours ago, WickedCadrach said:

I'm imagining blasted former-battleground lands that neither the LU nor the Hive fight for because they aren't strategic or valuable enough. A few enterprising young men and women might find enough scrap Bio-Frame tech to 'wrangle' a Kaiju and make a 'jury-rigged' Bio-Frame of their own. They might find a 'left-for-dead' Hive BioFrame and nurse it back to fighting shape to take for their own.

This says eloquently what I managed not to say at all. I was stuck at Eridani Light Horse and Hammer's Slammers which don't fit and I couldn't see my way to The Seven Samurai. The game and it's story has felt really small, desperate and intimate. This feels like the same scale.

Something I've just realized is that all of the game takes place well beyond a Hive city. Are those giant domed arcologies like Mega-City one or something?

I agreed early on that there are clearly factions and faults within both blocs but made a conscious choice not to suggest any. That was a mistake. I think Wicked has offered up some very interesting takes. A thought I had was the Hive's military special ops commanders (perhaps part of the same suits who show up in Wicked's cave colony) hire their teams out for "side jobs" for corporate espionage or internal political fights.

I had a thought similar to Wicked's about the LU faction that thinks the Hive citizens are damaged beyond repair - essentially manufactured sociopaths who can't integrate. What does that pilot make of Emily, and Magda's relationship with her?

I love the Kaiju supremacy. Is there a way they can become Beast Riders a la Rifts? And even if they can't, what do they make of LUST DF trying to preserve the Hive outpost?

Edited Tuesday at 11:16 AM by WritesNaughtyStories

[Icarian Dreams]

Don't take my silence for anything negative, it's just that you two have been posting so much good content that I'm struggling to respond in time on a phone at 3:30 in the morning :'D

@WickedCadrach That's so much good stuff! I think your view of the subfactions and inner factions is exactly the way it could work out, and thanks for actually managing to word it out for me :p

The canaries idea definitely has potential — I like the angle of having someone serving as a frame of reference to what an emotional reaction to a given situation might look like so that the rest of the hive command can take more informed actions. Intellectualizing will only take you so far. I'm not sure I'd use it for a character concept, but it's a nice plot point to keep in the back of our minds.

The internal Hive faction you described also brings up the existence of selective e-blockers, which is quite interesting. It does allow for the Hive to use selective emotions in its operations as well, which could be something to look into. Right now the only thing that comes to mind is the classical anger-fueled berserkers, but what other beneficial behaviors could you induce by boosting specific emotional responses and muting others? Servants who can feel nothing but love and adoration are an interesting concept ;p

@WritesNaughtyStories Apology 100% accepted, and I am sorry myself for starting us off at a wrong foot. I'm honestly as thrilled as you are for an opportunity to be a part of this... and maybe a little intimidated, because god damn are you two good writers. Ekhm.

28 minutes ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

The game and it's story has felt really small, desperate and intimate. This feels like the same scale.

This is something that I think is worth emphasizing. As much as I love exploring the different factions and subfactions, there is a benefit to staying focused. I think it's good to hint at the existence of other factions and politics going on, but at the same time probably not introduce too many moving parts that could distract us from the core. Would be nice if I could create a character whose background is from one of those subfactions within the Hive, I think, show that there's some cracks behind the united image that the Hive is presenting, but at the same I don't want to make it their core identity — it feels more like something that could potentially help if the story evolves into grander reaches later.

So, the core of the character is an ex-Hive soldier/commander currently contributing to the defense of the outpost, probably wary towards the Union but not in a position to refuse additional firepower.

The main challenge is somehow figuring out how to make them not have to go through the traumatic process of detoxification when they do switch sides.

It's a little tropey, but the "canaries" could be just an experimental batch. An attempt to see if easing the blockers on some specific emotions would make them more effective in a fight, or whatever scenario they're supposed to be put in. And being a failed batch, they end up sent to get disposed of on the frontlines. Does that sound like anything? This way we have them off the drugs to a degree already, and we could build towards what the subfaction within the Hive that's overseeing this experiment is.

[WritesNaughtyStories]

7 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

I like the angle of having someone serving as a frame of reference to what an emotional reaction to a given situation might look like so that the rest of the hive command can take more informed actions. Intellectualizing will only take you so far. I'm not sure I'd use it for a character concept, but it's a nice plot point to keep in the back of our minds.

I think (maybe in one of the discussions with DreamsnThings) we discussed the Hive ruling elite being very 'e-blockers for thee, but not me' minded. A possible character out of this mold is the idealist youth who sees the inherent hypocrisy of the system and rebels. Vi and Cait from Arcane, anyone?

7 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

It does allow for the Hive to use selective emotions in its operations as well, which could be something to look into.

This exists in a limited way already, and it being expanded further makes a lot of sense. We've established that Hive frame pilots are given combat drugs to spur aggression and anger, so the Hive keeping a variety of e-cocktails for a variety of uses is a natural extension. Affection and arousal for those girls at the swanky investor soiree. And I think the A&A (Triple A?, I dunno what the name is, but this is absolutely the kind of thing that gets made to abuse people, gets adopted for recreational use and a street name) cocktail is a popular gray market item among the Hive elite.

Memory blockers too. Probably hard to edit memories directly, but even now we can keep them from being formed. I wonder, do Hive pilots sometimes get shot full of that with their combat drugs? You know, just in case you had to torch a Hive outpost for the news reels?

Do captured Hive BioFrame pilots often have gaps in their memories? Do they get used against the populace more often than anyone knows?

Another option, the emo-man. Back alley emotion chef who sells very illegal emotion pills which are often of uncertain potency. Sure, 90% of business is AA, but people want all kinds of things. They may have blocker blocker and been weaned down secretly for years. Bet if the Hive police (and someone PLEASE tell me I can have Joseph Dredd here) get on to you, the wastes are the only option that's not the food vats. It's another Hive commoner, but with a very different experience getting to the Union. Do they, maybe, have some advice for LUST DF's plan to free the populace? 

Pushing on that the other direction, I think you find a part of the elite who see themselves as Mentats or Vulcans, and augment their intellect and obey a strict e-blocker regimen to make optimal decisions. I think they are the ones to be afraid of. It's not relevant to our story, but do they go on a purge of the Hive elite at some point? Once the Hive is focused behind their purposeful, heartless vision of purity, how does the rebellion change?

7 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

And being a failed batch, they end up sent to get disposed of on the frontlines. Does that sound like anything?

Maybe.

I don't think, given the amount of leverage the Hive has over useable resources, that they put those failed experiments in BioFrames. The Hive put them in their boots, patrolling the wastes to eliminate this pesky independents @WickedCadrach pointed out. Knowing they'll eventually get killed and don't have access to anything dangerous to the Hive, the Hive commanders trying to bury the illegal experiment don't have to worry much about them turning on them. The theory is the unmedicated withdrawal leaves them vulnerable and psychotic, thereby very likely to murder the wastelanders.

Which is great, unless the Liberation Union find them. Emily, @WickedCadrach, how much easier is their detox? Did the Union learn anything from Emily's experience?

Edited Tuesday at 11:23 AM by WritesNaughtyStories
clean up, clarity, additional thoughts

[WickedCadrach]

16 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

This is something that I think is worth emphasizing. As much as I love exploring the different factions and subfactions, there is a benefit to staying focused. I think it's good to hint at the existence of other factions and politics going on, but at the same time probably not introduce too many moving parts that could distract us from the core.

Definitely. There's no need to map every corner (or even decide if we're 'for sure' on Earth) yet. Obviously figuring out the relevant faction to your character's background makes sense, though. Even if they don't 'come onto the scene' until much later. 

16 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

It's a little tropey, but the "canaries" could be just an experimental batch. An attempt to see if easing the blockers on some specific emotions would make them more effective in a fight, or whatever scenario they're supposed to be put in. And being a failed batch, they end up sent to get disposed of on the frontlines. Does that sound like anything? This way we have them off the drugs to a degree already, and we could build towards what the subfaction within the Hive that's overseeing this experiment is.

&

13 hours ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

The Hive put them in their boots, patrolling the wastes to eliminate this pesky independents @WickedCadrach pointed out. Knowing they'll eventually get killed and don't have access to anything dangerous to the Hive, the Hive commanders trying to bury the illegal experiment don't have to worry much about them turning on them. The theory is the unmedicated withdrawal leaves them vulnerable and psychotic, thereby very likely to murder the wastelanders.

I think we have something here. While plenty of failed test-subjects might get handed a rifle and told to 'patrol the wastes', it makes sense that the Hive would use them for propaganda operations like this one. Being told 'Go garrison this outpost. It's very important' while command prepares to let it be overrun or attacked by kaiju to draw out the LU.

For the actual experiment, the character might have been dosed with an e-blocker that 'burnt out' certain emotions that make their detox mild or relatively short. They'd need to acclimate to the emotions they can feel, but they don't have the traditional freak-out because they've lost all capacity for a keystone emotion like aggression (or grief; or fear; etc). 

Alternately, they might be an experiment because instead of a chemical e-blocker, they have a piece of implanted cyber that acts like a noise-gate for emotions. They can feel fear and anger and love and such, but if they grow too strong, the cyber clamps down and shorts out the emotional response. That also gives us a mini-quest to see if they want that cyber removed and if/how to safely remove it. 

Either way, whether we go with this failed experiment of a Hive soldier or one of the ideas WNS had (the more privileged Hive scion who was already off e-blockers, or the Hive emo-dealer used to hiding their emotions), that sets up the character to get a cool moment of 'finding' their Bio-Frame in-game—a sort of 'getting knighted on the battlefield' moment if we want. 

--

Also, WNS, I love the world-building you're throwing in there. I'm all for the Hive elite having this divide where some hedonistically indulge in emotion while others double-down with even stricter limits. Having people dosed with unique cocktails by their employers or commanders, the A&A girls, all of that makes sense. I'm imagining speakeasies with illegal e-blockers and enhancers, old 'mood organs' people pay to hook into and get their brains stimulated with certain emotions for half an hour, that kind of thing. 

[Icarian Dreams]

Oh shit oh fuck the roleplay started moving again, I need to actually start creating something here

On 11/11/2025 at 07:14, WritesNaughtyStories said:

This exists in a limited way already, and it being expanded further makes a lot of sense. We've established that Hive frame pilots are given combat drugs to spur aggression and anger, so the Hive keeping a variety of e-cocktails for a variety of uses is a natural extension. Affection and arousal for those girls at the swanky investor soiree. And I think the A&A (Triple A?, I dunno what the name is, but this is absolutely the kind of thing that gets made to abuse people, gets adopted for recreational use and a street name) cocktail is a popular gray market item among the Hive elite.

Well now I'm starting to want to play a Hive lovedoll  Even if just for a couple scenes. These high-class dystopian sex parties can be such a vibe. You know, the sterile white tones of the Hunger Games capitol, servants modified to be at your every command, some of the nastiest, most powerful people you'll ever find dining in a room together? It's tickling the funny parts of my brain.

A&A doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but ANA does for that particular word combination. Might be too close to ANAL though :p Makes me wonder about the shipments that found themselves in Union's hands. And how many among the Union would pay good money to pump one of those into the so-called leaders of the Hive if given the chance?

On 11/11/2025 at 07:14, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Memory blockers too. Probably hard to edit memories directly, but even now we can keep them from being formed. I wonder, do Hive pilots sometimes get shot full of that with their combat drugs? You know, just in case you had to torch a Hive outpost for the news reels?

Do captured Hive BioFrame pilots often have gaps in their memories? Do they get used against the populace more often than anyone knows?

Memory blockers do feel like a quite natural thing to exist given the technological and social state of the world in the setting. Even IRL we already have semi- (if not fully-) controllable memory loss inducing drugs, as far as I'm aware, it's only reasonable to have them be a thing.

Your suggestions make a lot of sense here. Are they ingested before or after the time period they're supposed to forget? How much memory do they retain? Is it a complete wipe-out or does the brain form fake memories to justify the gap? And a random thought inspired by that: do pilots still get PTSD sometimes, even when on E-blockers? Perhaps not everything can be filtered quite as well as the Hive claims?

I'm thinking using them en-masse on a city population might be too expensive, whether money- or resource-wise, at least for relatively frequent application. Probably one of the last-resort kinds of options, where anything else just doesn't come into play.

On 11/11/2025 at 07:14, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Another option, the emo-man. Back alley emotion chef who sells very illegal emotion pills which are often of uncertain potency. Sure, 90% of business is AA, but people want all kinds of things. They may have blocker blocker and been weaned down secretly for years. Bet if the Hive police (and someone PLEASE tell me I can have Joseph Dredd here) get on to you, the wastes are the only option that's not the food vats. It's another Hive commoner, but with a very different experience getting to the Union. Do they, maybe, have some advice for LUST DF's plan to free the populace?

&

On 11/11/2025 at 20:58, WickedCadrach said:

I think we have something here. While plenty of failed test-subjects might get handed a rifle and told to 'patrol the wastes', it makes sense that the Hive would use them for propaganda operations like this one. Being told 'Go garrison this outpost. It's very important' while command prepares to let it be overrun or attacked by kaiju to draw out the LU.

For the actual experiment, the character might have been dosed with an e-blocker that 'burnt out' certain emotions that make their detox mild or relatively short. They'd need to acclimate to the emotions they can feel, but they don't have the traditional freak-out because they've lost all capacity for a keystone emotion like aggression (or grief; or fear; etc). 

Alternately, they might be an experiment because instead of a chemical e-blocker, they have a piece of implanted cyber that acts like a noise-gate for emotions. They can feel fear and anger and love and such, but if they grow too strong, the cyber clamps down and shorts out the emotional response. That also gives us a mini-quest to see if they want that cyber removed and if/how to safely remove it. 

Either way, whether we go with this failed experiment of a Hive soldier or one of the ideas WNS had (the more privileged Hive scion who was already off e-blockers, or the Hive emo-dealer used to hiding their emotions), that sets up the character to get a cool moment of 'finding' their Bio-Frame in-game—a sort of 'getting knighted on the battlefield' moment if we want. 

I do feel there's still space for Bio-Frame-specific regiments that are chosen to be experimented on. It could be an attempt to further the imitation of Union's pilots syncing with their frames — emotion seems to be a pretty significant part of how that connection is formed, so I think it wouldn't be completely out of the question that Hive could be experimenting with trying to copy that to the furthest extent that still lets them retain full control over the mech and its rider. And I agree that a Frame lance getting overwhelmed by Kaiju certainly paints a stronger picture than regular troops.

I'd like to put a pin in the cybernetic emotion clamp, because I do like the idea. Is it better than chemical blockers in any other way? Easier to produce/implement over large periods of time? More detailed control over what exactly the subject can feel? Is shortening of the emotions a painful experience, shock-collar like, or is it just a fade-out? Could it be tuned into an impromptu chastity device?

That being said, with what both you and WNS mentioned, the thought of the fallen Hive scion is starting to seriously grow on me. Playing someone who is from that high-class environment of the Hive could be really fun to play out, especially thrown into the very alien (and likely quite hostile) environment they will find themselves in in the Union. Where I was getting stuck is what that kind of character would be doing on the to-be-battlefield, but now I'm starting to see this as a perfect way to perform a public execution, right? The propaganda piece is most likely already targeted to the elites, considering the emotionless massess likely don't care and don't have much to say about it anyway, and getting rid of a rival/rival's daughter like this would be a pretty spicy way to do it. Or, to preserve that propaganda aspect a little better, it could be a fine way to convince a particularly stubborn opponent that the Kaiju actually are a threat worth investing into defense against — what better way to make the conflict feel personal?

Also;

On 11/11/2025 at 07:14, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Pushing on that the other direction, I think you find a part of the elite who see themselves as Mentats or Vulcans, and augment their intellect and obey a strict e-blocker regimen to make optimal decisions. I think they are the ones to be afraid of. It's not relevant to our story, but do they go on a purge of the Hive elite at some point? Once the Hive is focused behind their purposeful, heartless vision of purity, how does the rebellion change?

Is this a religious kinda group? It sounds like a religious kinda group. The idea of purity often is, I think.

[WritesNaughtyStories]

2 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

Your suggestions make a lot of sense here. Are they ingested before or after the time period they're supposed to forget?

Probably before. Modern medicine uses propofol to keep memories from forming in the first place. That means hive pilots (or other Hive military) who are used against civilians, defenseless wastelanders, or whatever have no memory of whatever malfeasance they were party to on behalf of the Hive. Which means they can't blab.

But I don't think it's something you can administer to large populations. I don't think it lasts for more than a hour a dose, so unless you have a way to give the whole city a shot or take a pill all at the same time it's going to have the desired effect. But pilots, hooked into their frames, can be injected as soon as you have them mount up. And, if you put multiple doses of the combat drug cocktail in the frame's life support system, you can give a new dose in plenty of time to extend its effect.

As for your e-blocker free elite scion: did they get sent to the outpost not to be killed, exactly, but prove their loyalty to House and Hive? You probably don't have a BioFrame, they're "coming" but the lifter's down, so the rapid reaction force is on call to cover you until the lifter is fixed and the factory completes the Frames.

So, here you are, commander without troops. Union BioFrames took on a fuck-off huge Kaiju, defending the outpost.  By the time the rapid reaction force showed up, the Kaiju was dead and the RRF attacked the Union.

Sound good?

If so, two nights later, what are you doing?

Edited Thursday at 02:10 AM by WritesNaughtyStories

[WritesNaughtyStories]

Just to bump this since I made a MASSIVE edit to this evening's reply, reread my last, please.

[WritesNaughtyStories]

As for the Vulcans, no, I don't think it's religious. I think they use intellect boosters and a strict regimen of e-blockers, meditation and self regulation to make clear, optimal decisions based on facts, data and the clearest statistical predictions .

They're dangerous because they're purists for themselves, but certainly will to use emo-drugs on others to get results. Maybe they have a monthly therapy session where they grab up a bunch of plebes and jack them full of combat drugs and throw them in a pit. While the patriots tear each other to bits, the Mentats help themselves to carefully calculated, but high, doses of AA and some party dolls who've been overdosed on AA. Come morning, steam's all blown off and everyone takes their blocker and gets back to work.

These fuckers really are awful. Who thinks of this shit?

[WickedCadrach]

On 12/11/2025 at 17:56, Icarian Dreams said:

Well now I'm starting to want to play a Hive lovedoll  Even if just for a couple scenes. These high-class dystopian sex parties can be such a vibe. You know, the sterile white tones of the Hunger Games capitol, servants modified to be at your every command, some of the nastiest, most powerful people you'll ever find dining in a room together? It's tickling the funny parts of my brain.

&

21 hours ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Maybe they have a monthly therapy session where they grab up a bunch of plebes and jack them full of combat drugs and throw them in a pit. While the patriots tear each other to bits, the Mentats help themselves to carefully calculated, but high, doses of AA and some party dolls who've been overdosed on AA. Come morning, steam's all blown off and everyone takes their blocker and gets back to work.

Oooo, if we ever want to do some cinematic cutaway scenes (or infiltration), these could be a lot of fun. 

On 12/11/2025 at 17:56, Icarian Dreams said:

I do feel there's still space for Bio-Frame-specific regiments that are chosen to be experimented on. It could be an attempt to further the imitation of Union's pilots syncing with their frames — emotion seems to be a pretty significant part of how that connection is formed, so I think it wouldn't be completely out of the question that Hive could be experimenting with trying to copy that to the furthest extent that still lets them retain full control over the mech and its rider. And I agree that a Frame lance getting overwhelmed by Kaiju certainly paints a stronger picture than regular troops.

This is interesting too. What if the experimentation wasn't just on the pilot but on the BioFrame as well? The Hive now has a a failed experiment that cost them a trained pilot and and extremely expensive BioFrame that is now unfit to be reprocessed or synced to a different pilot. In that case, they may send them to garrison the outpost as a way of 'destroying the evidence'. It looks bad on a spreadsheet if they admit the failure, but it's acceptable 'breakage' if the test-subjects are taken out by kaiju or an LU strike. The failure may be that it made them 'too much' like the LU pilots.

On 12/11/2025 at 17:56, Icarian Dreams said:

I'd like to put a pin in the cybernetic emotion clamp, because I do like the idea. Is it better than chemical blockers in any other way? Easier to produce/implement over large periods of time? More detailed control over what exactly the subject can feel? Is shortening of the emotions a painful experience, shock-collar like, or is it just a fade-out? Could it be tuned into an impromptu chastity device?

I was imagining it as an experiment in 'how much emotion' is an asset vs a liability for a BioFrame pilot. I don't think it makes sense to roll something like that out for general use over dosing the food and water supply (the current model for general control). But for a few pilots, it could let them more naturally tap into aggression, limited fear, attachment to their comrades, or other useful emotions. In my head, I imagined crossing that threshold of emotion as triggering severe tinnitus that just wipes out the current line of thinking and feeling to allow a reset. But honestly whatever is most appealing to you if you want to chase this idea. 

If you decide the scion idea is more fun, we could also take the approach that they 'aren't supposed to be here'. Maybe they are acting outside the regular chain of command as part of their exploration into what's really happening in this war. Maybe they took their BioFrame and faked some orders so they could investigate this 'hush-hush' outpost that doesn't makes sense, only to discover too later what's intended for it. Maybe the disadvantage of an emotionless bureaucracy is that forged documentation goes over extremely well. 

[Icarian Dreams]

23 hours ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

As for your e-blocker free elite scion: did they get sent to the outpost not to be killed, exactly, but prove their loyalty to House and Hive? You probably don't have a BioFrame, they're "coming" but the lifter's down, so the rapid reaction force is on call to cover you until the lifter is fixed and the factory completes the Frames.

So, here you are, commander without troops. Union BioFrames took on a fuck-off huge Kaiju, defending the outpost.  By the time the rapid reaction force showed up, the Kaiju was dead and the RRF attacked the Union.

Sound good?

If so, two nights later, what are you doing?

I am not necessarily against these suggestions (well, somewhat, I suppoze), but I would be keen to learn what sparked them — I think there's more drama and stronger motivation to align myself with the Union if the real reason I am at the location is because it was a trap laid for me. It's fine if the official reason given was some sort of a proving or a test, but it does feel like it also goes against the stated goal of sacrificing the settlement to actually have this sort of a trial take place there.

Similarly, I think putting my character in a Hive BioFrame — presumably one that won't survive the fight — makes for a better story. Not only does it give me more agency and prove to the Union that MC is/can be actually a competent pilot, there's also a much more personal link for if MC is saved by another pilot mecha-to-mecha rather than if they're just an important ViP somewhere in the outpost. There's a difference in dynamic that this paints, one that shifts from what I see as potentially damsel in distress, to one that's more matched and earned in blood on the battlefield. If you want cohesion between player characters, I think the latter would work out better.

Is there something in specific that you dislike about the original idea or causes issues for the narrative?

[Icarian Dreams]

1 minute ago, WickedCadrach said:

Oooo, if we ever want to do some cinematic cutaway scenes (or infiltration), these could be a lot of fun. 

I am 100% putting "Hive scion having to pose as a emotion-drugged love-doll for infiltration purposes" on my "please yes, I so badly want this to happen list". Just saying.

3 minutes ago, WickedCadrach said:

This is interesting too. What if the experimentation wasn't just on the pilot but on the BioFrame as well? The Hive now has a a failed experiment that cost them a trained pilot and and extremely expensive BioFrame that is now unfit to be reprocessed or synced to a different pilot. In that case, they may send them to garrison the outpost as a way of 'destroying the evidence'. It looks bad on a spreadsheet if they admit the failure, but it's acceptable 'breakage' if the test-subjects are taken out by kaiju or an LU strike. The failure may be that it made them 'too much' like the LU pilots.

That's a really good idea, which would also give a way to actually have a custom Bio-Frame for my character, which was going to be potentially problematic otherwise. I really like what you did here.

At this point, however, I am almost certain I am going to end up with the scion idea. The suggestion you made earlier of having a "knighting"" moment with a new mech also stuck with me, so I'm not sure I'd like to forsake this.

7 minutes ago, WickedCadrach said:

I was imagining it as an experiment in 'how much emotion' is an asset vs a liability for a BioFrame pilot. I don't think it makes sense to roll something like that out for general use over dosing the food and water supply (the current model for general control). But for a few pilots, it could let them more naturally tap into aggression, limited fear, attachment to their comrades, or other useful emotions. In my head, I imagined crossing that threshold of emotion as triggering severe tinnitus that just wipes out the current line of thinking and feeling to allow a reset. But honestly whatever is most appealing to you if you want to chase this idea. 

Yup yup, that's close to how I'm seeing it. I do think the best way to handle the severity of the "punishment" of crossing the emotion limit would be to make it tweak-able or dynamic dependent on other factors. This way you can make it both a soft dampener — or a torture device. Not sure why or what for yet, but I think it'd be neat :p

[WritesNaughtyStories]

4 hours ago, Icarian Dreams said:

I am not necessarily against these suggestions (well, somewhat, I suppoze), but I would be keen to learn what sparked them.

It's a ton of stuff.

Spoiler

Looking at it as the shifty bastard (and I hope your character will introduce us to them so i have a fun person to write as Magda fades to NPC status) planning this whole thing, I wouldn't give your character any chance of succeeding. If they put a potentially competent pilot on station, with a functioning BioFrame, they might actually keep the place from getting destroyed spectacularly on screen.

From a, "Oh shit, if we do that we might torch the game" department we have a tiny, non combat frame showing up. Your character might not engage, but everyone else will, they might call for support too. Scyllia almost certainly loses that fight.

On the game management front, it's also been established the outpost is undefended which creates the classic retroactive continuity problem. 

I have several thoughts about why your character ends up a pilot with LUST DF despite not entering the story with a Frame. The newly liberated BioFrame hasn't been synched with even enough to give it a name. A newly liberated Hive pilot seems the perfect person to establish the kind of empathetic bond no one else could. Your character meeting Emily and Magda outside of Frames makes dramatic, diplomatic dialogue far more likely and helping them make the first step toward liberating the entire population would do as much to win their trust (well, Magda's anyway - Emily might be much thornier) as anything else. If they sneak your character out afterwards (I actually have no idea how they physically do that, but there's 3 people who can think about that in game) she can be part of the liberation by bonding with that frame.

You feeling like your character and input shapes the game matters. I want you to have a frame you love and do cool shit, but I don't see a good way to get you involved until after this clandestine operation if there's a functional Hive BioFrame at the outpost.

If Magda and Emily Stealth past your character, you end up doing nothing until they return to secure the outpost with the carrier and four frames and a fight ensues. If they get caught, your character has to not be in their frame so you can talk and then head back with them (or wait and do the turncoat thing) and they jail break your character's frame.

By pushing your chacter's frame aside for this scene, I think there's a much more likely interaction as your character helps them sabotage the e-blocker dosing. Then your character's frame can be delivered, you can know they're coming back, and turn on the Hive mid fight.

We can do that, or use some of the stuff in the spoiler and your character can have the heartwarming interaction with the already liberated frame.

[WickedCadrach]

9 hours ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

If Magda and Emily Stealth past your character, you end up doing nothing until they return to secure the outpost with the carrier and four frames and a fight ensues. If they get caught, your character has to not be in their frame so you can talk and then head back with them (or wait and do the turncoat thing) and they jail break your character's frame.

I think from a meta perspective, we might want to adapt this to more neatly fit bringing in Icarian's scion character. There are a few ways we could play this...

- Magda and Emily being discovered tampering with the e-blocker dosing and possibly captured by a surprisingly competent Hive scion (who is on the fence over what side they're actually on) would give them a moment to have an out-of-combat encounter with Icarian's character. Maybe leading to an accelerated capture of the base as Icarian arranges to 'open the gates'?

- Icarian's character might leave the outpost on his own to try and proactively find and negotiate with the LU (since cooperation might be the only way to save the outpost and his own life), leading to an encounter in the field where we tensely negotiate through comms as our BioFrames stare each other down. 

I think we can handwave why Icarian's frame didn't join the initial kaiju fight by explaining command overrode him. Maybe he was specifically ordered by the initial intervention team to stand down and stay in the outpost? Maybe he intentionally delayed sallying out to join the fight because he was hoping the LU would push to take the outpost right then and there, and he wanted to be ready to accommodate?

Personally, I think it works either way if Icarian's scion has a BioFrame from the start or if they find one to bond with in the initial encounters, but it seems like they would prefer to start with one, and I think we can make that work. 

9 hours ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

I want you to have a frame you love and do cool shit, but I don't see a good way to get you involved until after this clandestine operation if there's a functional Hive BioFrame at the outpost.

I'm not sure I follow on this. I imagine Hive BioFrames would be penned the way LU frames are when they aren't in use? Maybe even more secured with chemical comas or other combinations of sedation and restrains. If Icarian's scion isn't actively in his BioFrame at the time, then we'd all be encountering each other on foot anyway. Emily and Magda wouldn't be able to take Scylla all the way into the outpost's facilities. Even as a small BioFrame, Scylla's huge and noticeable. So the final leg of the infiltration would be on foot regardless. 

I might be missing something here, but I think we'd be ok with a single Hive BioFrame being present in the outpost. 

[WritesNaughtyStories]

1 hour ago, WickedCadrach said:

- Magda and Emily being discovered tampering with the e-blocker dosing and possibly captured by a surprisingly competent Hive scion (who is on the fence over what side they're actually on) would give them a moment to have an out-of-combat encounter with Icarian's character. Maybe leading to an accelerated capture of the base as Icarian arranges to 'open the gates'?

This is precisely the kind of thing I'm suggesting.

1 hour ago, WickedCadrach said:

'm not sure I follow on this. I imagine Hive BioFrames would be penned the way LU frames are when they aren't in use? Maybe even more secured with chemical comas or other combinations of sedation and restrains.

I doubt the Hive's BioFrame locked down is much more complicated that a shutdown switch. Pilot jumps in, thumbs it on, and goes. Hive command gets a notice that the frame has been activated and the monitoring begins I'd warrant, but the competent scion with infiltrators would, I expect mount up.

Except that they know it pings command and everyone is watching. If they're on the fence and decide to interrogate the pair, the frame sits idle and only the young commander knows.

Which is functionally the same thing as the BioFrame being delivered later.

I kind of like the BioFrame getting delivered later, though. I think it adds evidence that the Hive commander and/or CEO are planning on not defending the outpost.

Edited 13 hours ago by WritesNaughtyStories

[Icarian Dreams]

@WritesNaughtyStories First of all, genuinely thank you for the reply, it made it much clearer to me where who's coming from.

Also, I did not quite communicate this clearly — I am not imagining my character's BioFrame as being operational after the initial scene, or in any way significantly threatening to Emily. The image I had in my mind was a mech essentially on its last legs, right after or during the process of fighting off a kaiju, getting pulled out of deep shit by Emily intervening. Admittedly, my understanding of the outpost's situation is rather vague at the moment, so I'm fully aware this sort of an image might not be even plausible — but it's what was guiding my thoughts.

The main points being — 1. the Frame my character uses in the scene can very well just not survivenpast that scene and 2. that MC is severly outgunned and essentially at LU's mercy when we first encounter her. What I'm pushing for is less a "already disillusioned character actively looking for a way to defect" kinda angle and more of "character finds an unlikely ally in their once-enemy and joins them because she can't go back to her old life," if that makes sense. Of course how exactly that happens can manifest in all sorts of different combinations, but that's the overall direction that I'd like to go towards.

I also think that something along the lines of having her life saved by Emily would come a long way to both start building a bond between the characters and further motivate the character to trust the Union.

Whether a Frame is involved or not is honestly secondary, the more I think of it. Most of its value would have been to show "hey, this girl is a skilled Frame pilot as well" off the bat anyway, but I imagine that can be conveyed in some other manner just as well.

Though I do appreciate your efforts to try and figure out a way to give me a frame there <3