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Wolfie

[Debate] EcchiDreams - Lolicon and Shotacon

13 posts in this topic

"WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN"

 

Which children would they be in cases of loli/shota images anyway?

The 2D ones [or 3D if that's the art style. The point is they're drawn, not photos] that don't really exist?

That's my problem with it. The self appointed Moral Guardians have an issue with it because, well, the children...

But it doesn't hurt real kids. No one gets them to pose for it [to my knowledge, at least I certainly hope not], and no one forces them to look at it [again, to my knowledge/I hope not].

So that would be my argument against that part at least.

 

As for the rest of it, you pretty much summed up how I feel about all this stupidity anyway, so basically: Seconded.

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That stuff is illegal in the US? O_O Well, I have a Memory Stick to wipe clean.

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Well fucking said mate. I'm glad there is people out there that thinkthe same way I do.

Edited by ωнσяєσ

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Tripp, I don't think studies into the effect, if any, of long time exposure to lolicon or shotacon would be possible as such experiments would fall foul of the spirit of the Helsinki Declaration and wouldn't past muster of any medical ethics panel. There would be too many practical difficulties for one, such as getting consistent exposure to the material and monitoring such exposure but also methodological issues such as ruling out other factors and what is even to be measured. 

 

Regardless of whether a positive or negative result was obtained from studies, if such a thing could even be done, I doubt people would change their minds. This is one of those arguments that don't rely on evidence but is about principle and argument. 

 

Anyway, I think the main reason governments have legislated such things is due to people forgetting that the main function of government is to allow and enable ALL citizens to live out their conception of the good [how they wish to live] and NOT to enforce one's private morality, no matter how widely shared it is. After all, feelings of disgust and offence cannot be construed as harm as the impact of such things cannot be proven or measured. As the major justification for legislation is that it is meant to be prevent harm and that no harm can be said to come of drawn pornography...

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Hmmm where to start on this one.

 

This subject has always been contentious to my understanding. For example; some places have taken the law to prosecute people for the most stupid things and discriminate against women due to breast size. There is also label that liking it automatically makes you a paedophile. (Which it doesn't) The cases I am speaking of are the following:

 

Texas:

 

A man was taken to court and given jail time due to the fact he had lolicon manga collection and general memorabilia. Nothing harmful but enough to make people paint him with the pedo brush. The manga in question was Dance in the Vampire Bund. (I have seen it in anime form and it is pretty interesting.) He has now been placed on the sex offenders register and is never allowed to have children. All because he owned a manga about a vampire queen

who is hiding in a child form so vampire warlords don't try to take her against her will and start a war.

There is NO sexual content in the manga at all. Just a romantic relationship that can never happen truly happen

not due to age or species but down to the fact if warlords found out she had grown up and wasn't a virgin they would pretty much rape her until she conceived a child.

 

Also the sad thing is is that the anime has a 15 rating here in the UK and has been licence by MangaUK:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dance-The-Vampire-Bund-DVD/dp/B005FVN54W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1401396588&sr=8-3&keywords=dance+in+the+vampire+bund

 

The manga is also perfectly legal to buy.

 

Australia:

 

The law on loli has also made it illegal for women below C up to be featured in porn of any kind. This in turn is discriminating against flat chested women and will make females who aren't naturally gifted feel rubbish about their own body image. In this day an age women don't need any more pressures on how they should look and porn used to back that up. But thanks to this law women are paranoid that they won't get a partner because they are too flat chested. 

 

 

Sweden:

 

A man has been jailed for life simply for having artwork of children. (He drew it himself) The pictures weren't pornographic or questionable. To my understanding he just enjoyed drawing them and having paintings. 

 

===

 

While I understand the reasoning for there being a limit on loli and shota I really think laws need to be made clearer to stop innocent people being hit in the cross fire and to clear up confusion, since that is all it seems to be doing.

 

I personally think it is ok given context and age. Anything below 13 and involves rape is no go for me and just wrong. I think if everywhere were to clamp down on loli or shota then lots of fanboys and fangirls would lose their minds. 

 

Here are a few clips from animes which feature shota and loli. They are all legal and have been licensed by MangaUK and MVM so nobody should get into trouble for them. 

 

 

I apologise if I have broken any ToS by posting these and fully accept any and all consequences for doing so. However I felt I needed to make my point about the grey area that is involved with loli and shota. 

 

Anyway that is my two cents on the subject. Sorry if it seems like I was rambling on! 

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Our Terms of Service clearly states "Minors in a Nude or Sexual Situation" as these are clips without context; they're actually allowed on EcchiDreams. Also it's not hosted by us; so I couldn't give a flying shark. xP I have to say that the under-C cup rule is disgusting; so by that logic you could be nailing a 45 year old lady with a flat chest... But in doing so you're a pedo. Absolutely abhorrent. Geez; regardless of her cup size - I'd HATE to think what they'd think about me (6ft 6") who is getting married to and repeatedly has sex with a female whom is 5ft 2". >_>

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am honestly surprised that no one has had an opposing opinion. I genuinely thought I was the only sane person left on the planet... Although that is a pretty insane thought right there. xD

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Sane people are a rare breed these days!

 

The clips were kinda pushing it which I why I said sorry, but I am glad they are allowed!

 

They would probably get their jimmy's ruffled over the height thing but who knows with them any more! (I heard their government is a lot worse than Cameron!)

 

I think what is worse is if the woman had breast cancer and couldn't afford to have surgery to have her breasts back again. One would then question if someone would be classed as a pedo for having sex with a former breast cancer patient. I mean say they were D+ and they had to have both removed so they were now A... where would that go? All sorts of questions and situations could be raised that just makes the law look stupid.

 

==

 

I think when we really look at the core of the problem it really is people being over protective and taking things way too far. But when you think about it, we were raised with all sorts of stuff and we turned out ok... right? o_o

Edited by LazarusLuna
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On 29/05/2014 at 22:46, LazarusLuna said:

Sane people are a rare breed these days!

 

The clips were kinda pushing it which I why I said sorry, but I am glad they are allowed!

 

They would probably get their jimmy's ruffled over the height thing but who knows with them any more! (I heard their government is a lot worse than Cameron!)

 

I think what is worse is if the woman had breast cancer and couldn't afford to have surgery to have her breasts back again. One would then question if someone would be classed as a pedo for having sex with a former breast cancer patient. I mean say they were D+ and they had to have both removed so they were now A... where would that go? All sorts of questions and situations could be raised that just makes the law look stupid.

 

==

 

I think when we really look at the core of the problem it really is people being over protective and taking things way too far. But when you think about it, we were raised with all sorts of stuff and we turned out ok... right? o_o

 

I am complete agreement with everything you said. A woman's age cannot be dictated by their breast size; it's no different from having a man's age being dictated by the size of his penis. >_>

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A woman's age cannot be dictated by their breast size; it's no different from having a man's age being dictated by the size of his penis. >_>

Does this mean I get older every time I get a boner? :P

 

 

Lolicon and Shotacon stuff is always pretty asinine to me. Some forms of child photography and nudity in said photography is legal. Lifestyle photos, such as photos of nudist colonies, are normally allowed. Babies and toddlers are often considered too young to even count for this stuff.

 

With lolicon and shotacon it is sometimes protected as part of the right to free speech (the same way most any form of art is protected). 

 

I understand why sites dont allow it (it is illegal in most contries where users are).

 

The idea that it promotes abuse toward children is equivalent to violent TV shows and video games make people do violent things. Which is its own can of worms right there.

 

 

Even better? I saw Dance in the Vampire Bund for sale at multiple Barnes and Nobles in Texas and else where. That guy is likely still on a offenders list.

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Read the manga series, "Boku Dake Ina Machi"

It touches this topic in a series of cases involving child murders in Japan. Its fiction, but really gets you thinking when cases like this arise. The first suspect and the one usually convicted is the guy who likes cute stuff. I'll admit I love me a bit of absolute adorable., but I ain't gonna obsess over it.

I'm personally against the actual child pornography, one big reason, you never ever mess with innocence.

Secondly, just why? I understand some culture but drawing or conversion are the only things you should get the strive for a trap or a tiny girl.

I could give two flips about loli and shota, they're just drawings, but it takes a sick man or woman to apply it, yes women too, especially school teachers....

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...loli and shota, they're just drawings, but it takes a sick man or woman to apply it, yes women too, especially school teachers....

exactly. don't even get me started on female school teachers. It's absolutely fine for (say) a 41 year old female teacher to have sex with (say) a 14 year old male child, and if it is not okay she'll get a very light sentence for what is essentially statutory rape. you'll get people defending the teacher to the point of being literal apologists for it (If citations are called for, then I will get them. if not - fucking google it. there's plenty of cases) yet if it were the other way around OHLOLNO, that man loses his job, his career, if he gets out of prison again he'll never be touched by any employer ever again.

getting back on topic, I think people are fucking stupid - and I think we all know what type of people I'm talking about here. the type that can't tell the difference between fiction and reality.

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