Let's start being honest about sex!

[Eros Angel]

Then again I dunno, human beings really aren't meant to be alone. Is it so surprising loneliness can turn to bitterness and hate?

[JennyDK]

3 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

Then again I dunno, human beings really aren't meant to be alone. Is it so surprising loneliness can turn to bitterness and hate?

I don't think it excuses any bad behaviour. Of course, it sucks that these people have such a hard time, but honestly? I have a lot of stuff to deal with too and I cannot save the whole race. If I do well enough, I might be able to help myself into a proper life I feel I deserve and should have. I will always aid others if I can, but sadly it is so taboo to say that selfishness is okay too in the right moments, doses and so on.

[Peculiaritree Deactivated]

Just now, Eros Angel said:

Doesn't sound very nice, if they tried actually being nice for real they might be surprised how far they get. Also I know you explained this to me before, sorry for being mud brained

 

I've been in smol brain mode myself for a few weeks now, so no worries lol. I agree with you, and generally speaking these dudes do figure that out sooner or later. The problem is getting them to realize that in the first place, because they're so self-unaware that they literally don't know that they aren't being nice for real. There's a stereotype of incels wearing fedoras and saying "m'lady." It exists because a lot of incels do things, if not exactly like that, at least in a similar vein; they cook up some idea of a "perfect gentleman" in the heads and then confused when women don't respond well to being treated like dolls.

3 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

Then again I dunno, human beings really aren't meant to be alone. Is it it so surprising loneliness can turn to bitterness and hate?

It isn't surprising and I do sympathize with them (I used to be one, so I understand where they're coming from), but at the same time a lot of these guys say and do very hurtful things to the women they pursue, up to and including stalking, harassment, and even rape. It's sadly not unheard of (though thankfully pretty rare) for these guys to end up seriously injuring or even killing the women they obsess over. The sooner they can redirect their frustrations towards healthier coping mechanisms (for me, it was music), the better off that they and everyone around them will be. They don't lose friendships, fewer people get hurt, everyone wins.

I don't mean to sound overly dramatic or anything, but frankly it's a serious problem in society that's only going to get worse the longer that people's mental health isn't taken seriously. That's a topic for another thread, though.

[Eros Angel]

@Peculiaritree I'm not saying horrific behavior should be excused or tolerated I just think it's an ironic tragedy that the people who are often the most hateful and act in a manner that makes them nearly unlovable really just need to be loved themselves.

Obviously it's more complicated than that but I see that as a truth in the matter.

[JennyDK]

2 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

@Peculiaritree I'm not saying horrific behavior should be excused or tolerated I just think it's an ironic tragedy that the people who are often the most hateful and act in a manner that makes them nearly unlovable really just need to be loved themselves.

Obviously it's more complicated than that but I see that as a truth in the matter.

WEll, first they have to show they are worthy of being loved though. Just like respect is not automatic, it is earned.

[Peculiaritree Deactivated]

@Eros Angel Nah, I get ya. You've got a good heart, Angel.

[Eros Angel]

Just now, JennyDK said:

WEll, first they have to show they are worthy of being loved though. Just like respect is not automatic, it is earned.

I disagree, perhaps if they were loved first then they would grow into worthwhile human beings.

[Peculiaritree Deactivated]

Just now, JennyDK said:

WEll, first they have to show they are worthy of being loved though. Just like respect is not automatic, it is earned.

That's pretty much the crux of the matter. Incels don't understand that to be loved and respected you first have to act in a loving and respectful manner, not like some creepazoid discount Humphrey Bogart. XD

[JennyDK]

1 minute ago, Eros Angel said:

I disagree, perhaps if they were loved first then they would grow into worthwhile human beings.

But if they were not loved before, perhaps there is a reason for that? I am not saying every single one of them deserved that, that would be stupid, but I am saying there has to be a pattern somewhere. I mean, even some people claim to like me for some reason and I am a dumbass xD

If respect needs to be earned, why not love?

[Peculiaritree Deactivated]

1 minute ago, Eros Angel said:

I disagree, perhaps if they were loved first then they would grow into worthwhile human beings.

Angel, as much as I'd like to agree with you, I was loved plenty by my parents and friends and I still fell into that crap super easily. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know I had some as-then undiagnosed mental things going on that made it worse. I had all the love in the world; I didn't have a therapist.

[luck588]

8 minutes ago, Peculiaritree said:

Angel, as much as I'd like to agree with you, I was loved plenty by my parents and friends and I still fell into that crap super easily. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know I had some as-then undiagnosed mental things going on that made it worse. I had all the love in the world; I didn't have a therapist.

It was the same with me 

[Buio Banned]

7 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

I disagree, perhaps if they were loved first then they would grow into worthwhile human beings.

I for one wholeheartedly agree that all people deserve to be loved, no matter what pieces of shit they are. They don't inherently deserve to be loved by -me- or any one in particular, and they aren't owed it just because they deserve it, but no one will ever get better without having that ray of hope, that betterness and healthiness to strive towards.

i fucking loathe many people in this world and entirely believe they deserve a bullet for the way they hurt humanity as a whole, I still wouldn't say they don't deserve to be loved by -someone- and made into better people if at ll possible, improbable as that may be.

 

6 minutes ago, Peculiaritree said:

Angel, as much as I'd like to agree with you, I was loved plenty by my parents and friends and I still fell into that crap super easily. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know I had some as-then undiagnosed mental things going on that made it worse. I had all the love in the world; I didn't have a therapist.

I don't think the point is that, as the Beatles would put it, 'love is all you need'.  Rather, that it is one universally necessary component. After all, you got better once you had that therapeutic care. One can lead a horse to water, but they cannot be forced to drink it. Do you think that therapy alone would have allowed you to outgrow that behaviour if you had not known the love and support of your parents and friends, had lives a cold, hurtful, and abusive life until that point? Do you think you even would have sought therapeutic assistance under those circumstances rather than simply blame such an uncaring world for your state of being?

[Eros Angel]

5 minutes ago, Peculiaritree said:

Angel, as much as I'd like to agree with you, I was loved plenty by my parents and friends and I still fell into that crap super easily. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know I had some as-then undiagnosed mental things going on that made it worse. I had all the love in the world; I didn't have a therapist.

Things like that are complicated I agree, and love is not a replacement for therapy and maybe meds but there are different vectors for love and different needs in love too though. You were loved by family and friends but not romantically by a desirable mate so one of those vectors was not there and you were missing something.

If you had the same feelings but had been born a sexy man with great wealth and girls chased you because you were attractive would that make you more deserving of their love as a person?

I don't really care about the concept of 'deserve' I think everyone needs love and bad things can happen when they are starved for it.

[Peculiaritree Deactivated]

1 minute ago, Buio said:

I don't think the point is that, as the Beatles would put it, 'love is all you need'.  Rather, that it is one universally necessary component. After all, you got better once you had that therapeutic care. One can lead a horse to water, but they cannot be forced to drink it. Do you think that therapy alone would have allowed you to outgrow that behaviour if you had not known the love and support of your parents and friends, had lives a cold, hurtful, and abusive life until that point? Do you think you even would have sought therapeutic assistance under those circumstances rather than simply blame such an uncaring world for your state of being?

You raise a very good point. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I never actually did end up getting any therapy and I've still turned out more or less all right in the end, so who knows if it would have helped me even if I had gotten it then?

Ultimately, as I said, I don't know what the answer is. Hopefully someone a bit wiser than me figures it out someday, though

2 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

Things like that are complicated I agree, and love is not a replacement for therapy and maybe meds but there are different vectors for love and different needs in love too though. You were loved by family and friends but not romantically by a desirable mate so one of those vectors was not there and you were missing something.

If you had the same feelings but had been born a sexy man with great wealth and girls chased you because you were attractive would that make you more deserving of their love as a person?

I don't really care about the concept of 'deserve' I think everyone needs love and bad things can happen when they are starved for it.

That's also a good point, and I didn't mean to imply that people aren't deserving of love. It's a very complex problem and, as we can see, I'm still not certain about all the factors even in my own experience with it

[JennyDK]

Other people are free to give any other person the love and care they wish, that is not for me to judge. To me personally, you have to prove you are a positive part of my life - otherwise, you are cut out of it. It sounds rough and "unfair", but to me I cannot have toxic people in my life. Of course, if I see them try to improve or see a way I can help them, that can be a solution, but I will not feel bad for thinking about what gives me value and happiness.

[Eros Angel]

2 minutes ago, JennyDK said:

Other people are free to give any other person the love and care they wish, that is not for me to judge. To me personally, you have to prove you are a positive part of my life - otherwise, you are cut out of it. It sounds rough and "unfair", but to me I cannot have toxic people in my life. Of course, if I see them try to improve or see a way I can help them, that can be a solution, but I will not feel bad for thinking about what gives me value and happiness.

Well I think you are confused about what I'm saying, I'm not saying you or anyone owes these men your time or attention, I'm saying they have an emotional need that isn't being fulfilled and the pain of that contributes to hateful and twisted behavior.

[JennyDK]

Just now, Eros Angel said:

Well I think you are confused about what I'm saying, I'm not saying you or anyone owes these men your time or attention, I'm saying they have an emotional need that isn't being fulfilled and the pain of that contributes to hateful and twisted behavior.

First I would personally advice them to seek professional help. Of course, a loving person is great and supportive, but the real help is given by professionals. Both are necessary in my opinion, if you are dealing with mental health issues (which I can attest from own experience).

[luck588]

17 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

Things like that are complicated I agree, and love is not a replacement for therapy and maybe meds but there are different vectors for love and different needs in love too though. You were loved by family and friends but not romantically by a desirable mate so one of those vectors was not there and you were missing something.

If you had the same feelings but had been born a sexy man with great wealth and girls chased you because you were attractive would that make you more deserving of their love as a person?

I don't really care about the concept of 'deserve' I think everyone needs love and bad things can happen when they are starved for it.

I'm going to describe my experience now, the time I went through a thing like this I was in high school there were 5 girls in my class I was interested in 2, one of them I had asked for her to kiss me when we where on 5ft grade and she turned me down the other I would be kinda of an idiot and did everything for her waiting for one day for her to suddenly kiss me. Like I was never seen as a desirable person by none of them but at the same time I was never good at showing my feelings and trying anything like in my mind I was waiting for them to on there onw get it and then turn in to my girlfriend 

[Eros Angel]

Well you know I have been very blessed in some ways in my life, one of which is I am decently attractive. My looks have helped me greatly in my life, opened doors that would otherwise be shut, made me the center of attention when I felt lonely and wanted praise, and get away with things only a pretty woman can do without consequence because even if your behavior is objectively atrocious if you make it cute enough people will find it innocuous and charming.

But I'm turning 37 next month, I still have my looks but I'm closing in on 40 and it's all down hill from here. How will I live my life as I slowly transform into an old hag? The free ride will soon be over. My wife whom loved me dearly and I fully intended on living to old age with has passed along with my two children and I am dating a woman whom I am physically attracted to and have great affection for but provides me with none of the soulful  communication and emotional depth my wife did.

I feel old and alone. I barely finished highschool and do not have a college education. I have no marketable job skills. I've spent my life basically using my cuteness to do what I want and when it goes I'll have nothing.

I've both had a blast in my life and experienced agonizing horror and tragedy, and I am thankful for all that I have and all that I have experienced, even the horrific stuff has been a big necessary part of developing who I am.

But my honest plan for the future? Have fun and live life until my looks fade and everything turns to shit, then OD on my pain medication and rest in peace with my deceased family. This will be many, many years in the future but it is honestly my path right now.

This is not a cry for help or the result of depression or mental illness and maybe it's a mistake to share because I don't want anyone freaking out or calling professionals on me, I'm just being truthful with you guys.

And if things go great in the future and becoming an old hag doesn't slow me down I won't ever kill myself, but I am honestly comforted to know I can leave this world if it all becomes too much.

In the meantime I have years of delightful fun to savor and I intend on sucking ever last drop of enjoyment up in this exsistence!

Anyway, sorry for the heavy confession and please please please no one freak out.

I trust you guys and like sharing myself, even the darkest stuff

 

[WritesNaughtyStories]

1 hour ago, JennyDK said:

WEll, first they have to show they are worthy of being loved though. Just like respect is not automatic, it is earned.

Love should be automatic and unconditional BUT that should NEVER be taken to mean actions don't have consequences.

Bad behavior must be addressed. Despite being an old 'Murican I'm not one to say that must be in the form of retribution (but fuck, that feels almost as good as a blow job sometimes) but acting like a dick needs to be called acting like a dick.

[luck588]

I'm not ugly although I find myself disgusting some times, I always find a way to be the center of attention but that is because I was born with an ability to talk really well like I could talk at adult level since I was 10 I can talk well enough to make people think that I know stuff I have no clue. I had only one girlfriend in my life and it was a 100% online relationship. My last date was with a girl I thought I would have my first real kiss with but in the end I was not able to even ask here for a kiss I knew that she wanted me to kiss her and she knew I wanted to but I was never able to act on it. Now I'm waiting to see if someone apear from the ether and ask me out because I'm done asking people out to then disappoint everyone.

[JennyDK]

2 minutes ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Love should be automatic and unconditional BUT that should NEVER be taken to mean actions don't have consequences.

Bad behavior must be addressed. Despite being an old 'Murican I'm not one to say that must be in the form of retribution (but fuck, that feels almost as good as a blow job sometimes) but acting like a dick needs to be called acting like a dick.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "love". Is it love like for a dear friend or family? I do love my fellow Danes overall, but not like a personal thing of the deeper kind. In any case, to me I will not love anyone unconditionally. I can value someone as a person, until they prove they are not worthy of that. That does not mean I will do them harm or wish them harm of course. I will personally not feel bad for not automatically bestowing anyone with love, respect and such. To me, those are earned indeed.

I am cool with others having their own way of going about it, as long as they respect mine.

[WritesNaughtyStories]

16 minutes ago, Eros Angel said:

But I'm turning 37 next month, I still have my looks but I'm closing in on 40 and it's all down hill from here.

Damn, I'm past 50. Go easy on yourself. I was over 40 when I remarried. It's not all downhill. Granted, I'm a white guy in 'Murica, so I have an okay gig, but I'm an old white guy in a profoundly youth oriented culture.

Seriously, it's possible to be sexy past 40 (even with age spots on your crank).

[Eros Angel]

1 minute ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Damn, I'm past 50. Go easy on yourself. I was over 40 when I remarried. It's not all downhill. Granted, I'm a white guy in 'Murica, so I have an okay gig, but I'm an old white guy in a profoundly youth oriented culture.

Seriously, it's possible to be sexy past 40 (even with age spots on your crank).

Thanks, I needed that

[luck588]

4 minutes ago, WritesNaughtyStories said:

Damn, I'm past 50. Go easy on yourself. I was over 40 when I remarried. It's not all downhill. Granted, I'm a white guy in 'Murica, so I have an okay gig, but I'm an old white guy in a profoundly youth oriented culture.

Seriously, it's possible to be sexy past 40 (even with age spots on your crank).

I come from a family where people take a lot to age in terms of looks like my father is over 60 and looks about the same from his late 30s my grama is over 80 and looks like 60