suggestion: rejected [Roleplay Suite] [Blackberry Falls] So, I had an idea.

[Novaer]

So I had this idea...

When the RP opened up originally in 2007 we needed to base the RP off of some laws that already existed to save time on writing the rules. The leader of the RP section at the time had this somewhat narrowminded idea that really at the time would have solved the immediate problem but was never conceived in the larger scale. I think at the time I was admittedly that Roleplay Adminstrator.

Of course back then it was just Thorndown Highschool which was very limiting. Now we have a fully open island based RPs (and Andromeda which is a open space RP and in my opinion virtually limitless if you can use your imagination.) It was admittedly a narrowminded idea which I think was actually mine. This idea now is rather... Limiting and unfair. 

Blackberry Falls is ran by the UK/US government. Therefore it's a blend of their laws.

Now obviously this has changed with the RP department but the extent of change is the name. Nothing else. 

So I'm thinking to make the RP more free-ranged and less strict, which may (I'm guessing here) put off less-serious RPers and people who aren't from the UK or the USA who may (again just guessing here) feel sectioned and isolated from the RP.

I think focus should be rules of the Roleplay. Not rules within the roleplay which may feel restrictive. It was all unintentional as I didn't anticipate this at the time and the community if memory serves me didn't care either way, but had a few loud voices who had one opinion or the other. 

I understand that there is BOUND to be laws in a civilization. But perhaps this could just be Blackberry Fall's laws rather than a fixed set of laws the exist in real life. It should be up to people to communicate with each other the cause and effect, the consequences of this cause and effect and think about their RP in a dynamic sort of way, they should be able to choose if they want to do that, not have it forced on them. If that makes sense. Now I posted this up publicly because I want roleplayers to put their voices, to get some real information. So in short I'm not really sure what to say, it's something I noticed and wanted to bring to attention. A sort of "Do we need to improve this?" sort of deal. 

One last thing. People shouldn't be scared to post suggestions up in the suggestion's forums. I want to assure everyone that I read every single suggestion personally, it's my job to. If there are other ideas and stuff that you want to share that you think may improve the site it doesn't hurt to bring it up. It's better that we are aware of any problems rather than being unaware. 

[SMFoxy]

The majority of countries have very similar laws in a lot of regards, though there's a lot of variation in punishments.

Even in the same country, the punishment is affected by the severity of the crime, at least in the UK/US.

 

Really, setting it in a certain 'location' [or under a certain jurisdiction] to me says "Alright, the laws are all pretty standard, but this is the judiciary system we're using. If you steal something, we'll imprison or fine you, or give you community service, rather than cutting off your hand."

[No offence meant to anyone, it was just an example.]

 

So yeah, to me 'location' means more "what punishment for breaking the law?" rather than "what laws?", because most places have similar laws.

Though the obvious exceptions are laws regarding sex, such as the legality of homosexuality and age of consent.

 

That's what I think at least. But it is a good idea to get input regardless.

[Manni]

I don't think that's so much the issue than at least some of the people we get just want to cybe and they don't really care about all the work that's been done.

[SMFoxy]

  On 4/29/2014 at 11:58 AM, Manni said:

I don't think that's so much the issue than at least some of the people we get just want to cybe and they don't really care about all the work that's been done.

 

While I agree with you, Manni, there are still plenty of people out there, and even in here, that don't come here just to cyber.

Whether it be the majority or the minority, if there's no pride in the work, we won't be attracting the serious roleplayers.

[LordOfHentai]

I guess the thing about applying laws from UK and US is an fascinating idea which only adds flavour to Blackberry city. But I must say that the condition of bisexuality should be better than the real condition in UK ,

Moreover incest is illegal in UK. It would be sad if incest roleplay is banned.

 

However prostitution is completely legal so i m gonna support the law this time.

I

advise forth for a customized law where democracy of fellow perverts and roleplayers are satisfied..

[Novaer]

I am not very sure what, exactly you're referring to about; "The condition of bisexuality should be better than the real condition in UK". Incest is pretty much illegal everywhere in the real world (I think one or two country's accept/tollerate it. I'm not sure.) But prostitution in the UK is most certainly not "Completely Legal" at all.

In the United Kingdom, prostitution itself (the exchange of sexual services for money) is legal, but a number of related activities, including soliciting in a public place, kerb crawling, owning or managing a brothel, pimping and pandering, are crimes. - Wikipedia and BBC [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7736436.stm - 2008]

In America; from what I understand is you have at least two levels of law. Federal and State, and this is simply where it becomes confusing. What's legal in one state might not be legal in the state next door, which could be a matter of a few meters from where it was legal to where it's illegal.

The thing is I think there's probably commonground; but if we say Blackberry Falls as a full democracy that allows the Roleplayers to vote on laws... I dunno. It may end up looking even more serious, for even more serious roleplayers. Which could put of a lot of people who do just want to. I personally don't see that solution as being viable.

Instead; I propose is inter-character interpritations of the Rules of the Roleplay. It wouldn't be completely lawless; but as long as the rules of the RP is being followed; it doesn't matter how your character interperates that law, the character is a fictional character at the end of the day. If Person A and Person B has a character that's say... Cheating on his missus with, Person A's character is to catch them then kill them both, and they both agree on this grosum end for their character's lives then that's fine in the rules. However; if Person A and Person B are a bit more serious (roleplayers) then perhaps they might seek out someone with a Police Officer character (This is where character ID tagging might come in handy) If people don't want to do it then fine. At least this will be the intention of such a change. Ultimately we do want to give the tools to allow non-serious roleplayers an opportunity to become more serious; and let everyone learn a thing or two about roleplaying. I'm not above saying I've definately learnt from people who dare to do different and ultimately I know EcchiDreams can have the capability of giving everyone a chance to improve themselves. My English used to be appauling worse than it is. EcchiDreams ultimately helped me in so many ways and I want it do that, not just for myself but others too.

I also wanted to add that the Current roleplay Administrator has been quick to adapt; quick to modernise and I'm not saying that out of any personal interest. But the Roleplay has seen the biggest transformation on this site, what started out as one very limited high school has become so much more. But there are some areas that need to be challanged.

And Manni; I understand where you are coming from but I'm not sure how to really respond. So I have to speak from personal experiance.

The problem is with people who aren't serious about roleplaying who want to roleplay only sex tend to expect the serious roleplayers to roleplay only sex with them. From personal experianced, I just felt used and unappreiated as a person because my posts were unappreiated and the people I was roleplaying with didn't read what I had put. But I opened myself up to that.

The problem here I think lies around the "Anti-No Porn Without Plot" stance this current administration believes in; because in real life porn without plot does happen, or rather sex without plot. One night stands for example, one time quickies some people somewhere get involved in. Okay it doesn't happen as commonly as the RPs but it does happen, and I know Neppy believes that such things shouldn't be enforced either. But where does that leave the roleplayer that doesn't want sex-sex-sex all the time? Hell sometimes I roleplay sex for no plotistical reason what-so-ever. Just because I can. I like that freedom.

But what I'm saying is people who aren't serious shouldn't expect it from everyone. Just because this a hentai site; doesn't mean we're all obsessed from whenever we get up to whenever we go to sleep with sex. Well I might be, LOL. But seriously; I just put "I will not do sex-sex-sex and I will want to do a bit of storyline between the sex bits because that's who I am." In line with my belief that I think doing sex RP's is awesome, but it's like desert. You want meals too, you can't "live" off of only deserts.

It should be up to the person and really the community to decide who they want to roleplay with and who they don't. I try to give people a try and admittedly I've had it thrown back in my face so many times that I kinda reclused. Eventually I put up my own disclaimer and what I will do and don't do. I will be changing this as I feel it's geared only towards sexual encounters which really hasn't been my interest since 2011/2012. So yeah; I dunno. I felt it was easier at the end of the day by setting an example and putting up disclaimers; and my list of RP do's and don'ts with me. So people have a vauge idea before asking me to RP with them.

[Neptune]

Does anyone else wish to put their thoughts in? I would really love more feedback on this from the members. Thank you.

[Arsha]

I actually wanted to hold off on replying to this until I'd at least started an RP in Blackberry Falls, but my personal opinion is that it probably doesn't matter all that much whether you follow US/UK laws or integrate other non-western laws into the mix. I should probably state that I'm from Australia, and the laws here are pretty similar to the current ones, so maybe I'm being insensitive or lacking understanding.

 

I personally don't think the legal legislation within an RP affects the RP that strongly.

Creating laws from scratch is extremely difficult in an urban setting.

It might be interesting to create laws as an RP goes in something like a tribal Roleplay.

But for Blackberry Falls I just can't imagine any better system.

Either way if people aren't joining Blackberry Falls I doubt laws are the problem.

If I completely missed the mark with my comments, I'm sorry. I did read how you wanted to focus on;
"Rules of the Roleplay. Not rules within the roleplay"

But wasn't quite sure what that meant.

 

  On 4/29/2014 at 11:58 AM, Manni said:

I don't think that's so much the issue than at least some of the people we get just want to cybe and they don't really care about all the work that's been done.

 

I'm going to sound a bit mean here, but I can't help but question this statement.

On a site titled "Perverted Dreams" with Hentai in the banner, and pornographic adverisements at the bottom. I really can't say I'd be surprised if people came here for a more sexual oriented fixation rather than for to express their creative flair. 

I'm not saying it should all be cybering and smut roleplays. But I personally expected a much stronger focus on the sexual aspects when joining...

 

I've actually tried inviting two friends here, both declined.

One of them just told me the site wasn't for them, but the other gave me a bit more insight.

For starters they told me the site looked more like a place for a quick cybering session than proper roleplay.
I think that was a bit close-minded of him, and think he should've given the place a more thorough look-around, but if I think from the perspective of a typical guest to the site, he probably gave the place a more thorough look than most.

 

I'm not saying that plot and detail should be pushed to the side, but if people join for near-cyber experinces, I don't think you can be blamed for not caring about the detailed indepth world that's been prepared for them.

[Novaer]

What I mean by "Rules of the Roleplay. Not rules within the roleplay" is perhaps we should focus more on the rules of the actual roleplay. Example; no killing other character's without the other persons permission. Simple enough. Rules within the roleplay; Murder is illegal, most civilized countries agree that Murder is wrong. (Despite getting permission, from the person.) 

 

Now rather than being enforced; it could be that someone who has a Police character starts trying to investigate what happened and such. Some people may like that. Others may just want to do and get on with their plots and fuck realism in the face. Whatever; we shouldn't dictate what their characters can and cannot do; that doesn't stretch to violating other people's rights to roleplay... I'm not good at explaining concepts... So if you still don't catch my meaning if anyone can jump in and translate for me... It'd be appreciated. ^_^

[Starcry]

In my opinion I think we should look at it from a basic political philosophy and social science point of view. By this I mean going down to the basics and asking ourselves this:

 

What is society?

What is government? 

How are they formed?

 

And for from there.

 

From what I have seen on all roleplay sites; they all seem to go on laws/rules of common sense or lores of the universe in which characters are from. Now while this is good it also creates a bit of a problem in some countries. For example; in some places in the world being gay is against the law. (Punishable by death) In other places it isn't law but simple homophobic belief that being gay is as bad as incest. While in other places being gay is fully accepted 

 

I hope I am making sense here.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe instead of thinking about country laws and such that perhaps we push those a side and ask the questions above about Blackberry Falls?

 

To Manni:

 

That is quite a blunt statement and I can see where that impression comes from. (I have been to a lot of adult sites that give the same impression!) However a quick look around does show that a lot of time and effort has gone into the roleplay sections. I am sure if people came here for a quickie that they would have requested a section in which they can get their socks off without the strings of the sections but I haven't really seen any other sections like it so I assume not. 

 

I guess if people want to get their jollies off without plot then we shouldn't stop them. I think as long as they don't break the ToS of the site then we should just let people go at it. I will admit now; even though I am strong on sex WITH plot, there are times when sex WITHOUT plot can be amazing. (Sometimes even leads onto plots!)

 

At the end of the day I don't think it is anyone else's problem if people are just too cyber hungry to care about the time and effort put into this place. I am not going to say that I know what the staff of the roleplay section are thinking but I have a feeling they just care that people follow the rules and that the more serious roleplayers appreciate the work put in. While I haven't roleplayed here, (still on the fence and considering things.) as a veteran roleplayer I can certainly see how much has been put in and I applaud them for it all. 

 

All in all I wouldn't worry about what short termers are here for. I would be worrying more about now and any and all effort from anyone. :)

 

--

 

I think I'll end it here. ^_^;;

[Feyvel]

I'm just going to go out on a whim here, and try not to make a complete fool of myself. So if I say something that doesn't make any sense, is completely stupid, has no relation to the current topic, etc, please forgive me, for I don't usually get involved in things like this. ^^; I do, however, have a a fondness for this site and community, so I would like to try and better it in whatever ways possible...so, here I go. 
 
I personally feel like there needs to be some sort of IRP laws...I'm a fan of realism to some extent, and it would make the way that I chose to roleplay more enjoyable. However, I can easily see and understand that not everyone would be interested in things like this, so I am in favor of leaving it entirely up to character interaction, and how the roleplayer chooses to handle the situation. 
Say, for example, someone comes here wanting to roleplay a murder, and finds another member who has a character of theirs they want to be killed. So, the two roleplay the scene out, have a good time, etc. etc. Now, the fact that a murder took place should obviously send major 'illegal' vibes off in the RP, but if the people who took place in the RP do not wish for it to go that route, then they shouldn't have their characters act on it in that way...this probably doesn't make sense, so let me further elaborate. 
If the RP'ers wanted to play with IRP laws, then--and I am speaking in very general terms here--they should, say, have their murderer character leave signs that they murdered this other person's character. (i.e. fingerprints, article of clothing, you get my drift. However they chose to portray it.) And then a police character or some other official related to the situation could act on it from there. But if the two parties did not want their RP to play out like that, then the murderer character should...get rid of all evidence, I suppose. Play it off in a way that the officials should not get involved.

So it should all come to character reaction and choices, perhaps. But they may also be too restrictive, telling people how to roleplay and such...so it may not work. 

 

Maybe for people who want a 'no-laws' RP, we could create a separate forum? That could also go for the RP'ers who just want to RP sex with no plot. An 'Unrestricted' forum, if you will. That way people could find something they are interested in, no matter their RPing preference. 

 

I do feel like there are some laws that should just obviously not count in Blackberry Falls though, such as those against homosexuality and sex with minors. There would probably need to be a set "age of consent" law...but that's just my two cents. 

 

I apologize if I just rambled and made myself look dumb--I just thought I would try and give some sort of feedback. Sorry if it was not useful. ^^;

Edited June 3, 2014 by Feyvel

[Novaer]

I think I understand; likewise my invisioning is pretty hard to explain; and by the way thank you everyone who's voted and given feedback. I suppose I should say stuff... Try and respond to what is said that sort of thing.

 

Also gotta keep in mind that some crimes don't get reported or noticed. Bombing Blackberry Falls - Yeah that's going to get noticed. But domestic abuse may not until it is reported. If you murder someone in broad daylight in the middle of say... a Crowded shopping centre or "Shopping Mall" that is definitely going to get noticed. Be that NPC (PayDay2 Heist? Shit that sounds fun!) Perhaps it would be a personal erk to see this (And this is a hypothetical situation; I'm not saying it's happened or not) but to see people pulling off a PayDay2 Heist by shooting every civilian in the face without even taking into account that someone else would definitely have seen that. - And likely freaked the fuck out. As if everyone's all like "Oh so she's dead and I'm next - Oh well. Here I come Grandma." POW.

 

I mean it isn't so bad for the UFF; I can post their laws (largely because I have to). But obviously its impossible to cover every possible situation (Hell our REAL LIFE law makers have issues with this too!) Perhaps it'd over complicate matters and put people off, I suppose it's a personal preference, this would then give the roleplayer an impression of what NPC's and character's reactions would be if one suddenly "PULL OUT MY GUN~" in a UFF Shopping Centre.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_84kR7QWN4

Southpark reference which illustrates my point. ^_^

The more I talk about the more it sounds like a personal issue. But I dunno I think really there should be a post of illegal things that might get your character into a spot of hot water. I dunno... It's definitely something to think about and I think I can say I am starting to get the hint. xP The reason I wanted to move away from using US/UK laws is because we have people who aren't from the UK/US who roleplay in there, I'm thinking more "Blackberry Laws" something that the people who roleplay in there help build up. But as I said it's too niche and probably way over analyzing it. I think Manni's post had a little more meaning in it than what (to lack a better phrase) most people have picked up on, and I think you're right, that underlying issue isn't so much as the level of detail in the Roleplay but the cause is a much bigger problem. Although I still think Blackberry should be it's own laws after all we don't want to make in the RP as shitty as real life by introducing real life countries into the equation. 

 

[Starcry]

(Payday2 is badass! Raiding a mall on hard and then getting chased down by swat team is awesome.)

 

I agree with Feyval but the only flaw I see if people complaining about meta-gaming or god-modding.

 

I also like your points and explanations Tripp. 

 

While people could use common sense and moral to dictate laws I am not sure that would work either. I think law problems are a complex one. For example:

 

Country 1) All laws are based on religion and there are two types of police. State police and religious police. One deals with serious serious actual crimes while the other deals more with moral crimes and rarely gets involved in actual crimes.

 

Country 2) Purely based on Communism - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Communism

 

Country 3) Purely based on Capitalism - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Capitalism

 

Country 4) Purely based on Socialism - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialism

 

Country 5) Purely Democratic - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/democrat

 

Country 6) Purely Republic - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/republic

 

Country 7) Purely Utopanism - No country has this and I doubt we will, so it will only stay at the personal belief stage. But in basics it is a system based on fairness to everyone, regardless of who you are. When people think about the "perfect" place for them as a system this is it. However the video game "Bioshock" has shown us that as awesome concept as this is that there is so much that can seriously go wrong. 

 

--

 

Sorry if that bored anyone reading up!

 

I think the only way we can prevent the whole doing a heist and being all "I got away with it because there was no one in character to see it lolololo" that we could have a notification sent out to players (Like a RP news cast pm) that basically reports on the crime or something. Because even if they got away someone would find out sooner or later. 

 

Just like in Payday2 you will have a very hard time getting no one to alert others about goings on.

Hell they creators did such a damn good job programming it, simply because if you restart a mission things change around. For example; On the first around there is a security guard in the jewel store, a crack hoe down an ally and two safes. But if you mess up and restart thing change up. On the second time around one of the roads is blocked off by police cars, there is a hot dog cart which are undercover cops, the alley has two guards patrolling the place and there is no safe. Each time it will change but play it enough and you learn all the signs and tricks. However say the person rp that they did a heist and doesn't go into big detail about who or what was there, the rp admin or mods can easily add witnesses that weren't seen and notified the police after the person leaves. The staff can then send a pm that would be a news cast thing to say about the heist and stuff.

 

Sorry if I side tracked... I think I will stop for now because I have too many ideas that are floating around and that I can't put into words. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense either!

Edited June 3, 2014 by LazarusLuna

[Novaer]

  On 6/3/2014 at 4:49 PM, LazarusLuna said:

Just like in Payday2 you will have a very hard time getting no one to alert others about goings on.

Hell they creators did such a damn good job programming it, simply because if you restart a mission things change around. For example; On the first around there is a security guard in the jewel store, a crack hoe down an ally and two safes. But if you mess up and restart thing change up. On the second time around one of the roads is blocked off by police cars, there is a hot dog cart which are undercover cops, the alley has two guards patrolling the place and there is no safe. Each time it will change but play it enough and you learn all the signs and tricks. However say the person rp that they did a heist and doesn't go into big detail about who or what was there, the rp admin or mods can easily add witnesses that weren't seen and notified the police after the person leaves. The staff can then send a pm that would be a news cast thing to say about the heist and stuff.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I've been quite busy lately and about to take a well earned break. 

 

I like the idea; kinda lets other people have their plots (Say if they work for Pegasus News, @NeppyNepNep) use other people's in a non-destructive way (Unless the person wants the police and the public at large to know "Whodunit!"). It's definitely an interesting idea; kinda like the ol' "Reality Keepers and Narrator" of the linear book based RPs, but with it's own twist to match the diversity and the complexity of the Scenario based roleplays, hell as long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of things I can't see why that can't be allowed. A roleplayer shouldn't expect being able to pull something like that off in broad daylight without ramifications really (I understand that I'm one to talk, and now I will even be covering it myself in my next post for Blackberry Falls News and for what's about to come that doesn't paint the UFF in a good light; but when you read their side kinda makes somewhat sense.)

 

I think I was over analyzing it and that didn't cross my mind. Thanks.

 

Thanks to everyone who voted and explained, I was wrong and... I withdraw my suggestion.

[Nyrgin20]

I do think that what Tripp is trying to say is kinda making sense. And everyone's inputs are appreciated as we want a roleplay community that is, like Tripp said is "Rules of the roleplay, not rules within the roleplay". While the laws of UK/USA, Australia or any other countries may be similar, we should try sticking to the idea that in roleplay, the rules are what we want them to be. I understand that some people want structured rules for roleplay, but what if those structured rules are actually constricting on the roleplayers roleplay imagination. I mean, we can't have a website called EcchiDreams if we can't live out our roleplay dreams, am I right? I'm sure other's feel the same way, but I'm just saying what I believe should be done.